Anyone have any insight into this style of TKD

[seninoniwashi]

Hiya all,

I've recently crossed over into the world of TKD from Kenpo and have been with a new school for roughly 6 months. I started talking to other TKD'ists out there and I'm starting to realize that there's some distinct differences. The first kata, Ki Cho Il Bo is almost identical to the very first kata I learned in Shotokan when I was a younger. When I bring up this kata and the self defense techniques they teach to others in the TKD community outside of my school they have no idea what style of TKD or the origin of it.

Does anyone have any information as to the style and origin of a TKD art with the following for the first belt:

Kata:

• Ki Cho Il Bo

Self Defense Techniques:

• Dolphin Clap
• Double Blades
• Head Twist

 

[agemechanic03]

Not sure about the self defense ones, but I study Tang Soo Do and that's the name of out 1st form. And yes, it derives from Okinawa/ Japan, that is also why you would recognize from your previous studies in Shotokan. The second form will be Keecho Hyung Ee Boo! Hope that helps atleast a little bit.

 

[Kacey]

Hmm.... I've never heard those terms before; perhaps Terry will be able to help you. However, ITF TKD is strongly related to Shotokan, especially the earlier tuls (patterns, kata, whatever) - perhaps they broke off so early that they lost their history, especially in translation? The second ITF tul, Dan-Gun, is nearly identical to the first Shotokan kata, with a difference of perhaps 3 movements - depending on when/why they split, they may have kept the forms and renamed everything. Do you know how many patterns there are, or can you name the movements in the first pattern? That might help.

 

[bluemtn]

Hmm.... I've never heard those terms before; perhaps Terry will be able to help you. However, ITF TKD is strongly related to Shotokan, especially the earlier tuls (patterns, kata, whatever) - perhaps they broke off so early that they lost their history, especially in translation? The second ITF tul, Dan-Gun, is nearly identical to the first Shotokan kata, with a difference of perhaps 3 movements - depending on when/why they split, they may have kept the forms and renamed everything. Do you know how many patterns there are, or can you name the movements in the first pattern? That might help.

I agree with Kacey, since the first form you mentioned is the first form I learned in my TSD class. Don't know about the self defense, but we don't really have ours "labled"...

Perhaps, like Kacey said, it was one of the early split offs? I think certain kwans claim/ still do quite a bit of the forms that are seen in TSD and Shotokan.

 

[howard]

The three kicho forms are also the first forms taught in Ji Do Kwan. They derive directly from Shotokan's Taikyoku forms.

 

[bluemtn]

The three kicho forms are also the first forms taught in Ji Do Kwan. They derive directly from Shotokan's Taikyoku forms.

I thought so, but couldn't remember if it was...

 

[terryl965]

Yes Howard is right Ji Do Kwan is the linage for these forms as well as the self defense. This means your instructor hold to the roots of one of the original kwans which is a great thing for you. Can I ask your Instructor name?

 

[seninoniwashi]

Yes Howard is right Ji Do Kwan is the linage for these forms as well as the self defense. This means your instructor hold to the roots of one of the original kwans which is a great thing for you. Can I ask your Instructor name?

Thanks Terry - good to hear. I was a bit worried; the school is great as are the instructors. TKD is so new to me and I have no insight into the various styles and traditions out there. Currently I'm working with a junior instructor by the name of Victor and the main instructor Mike Sakowski (not sure if that's how it's spelled.)

 

[seninoniwashi]

Hmm.... I've never heard those terms before; perhaps Terry will be able to help you. However, ITF TKD is strongly related to Shotokan, especially the earlier tuls (patterns, kata, whatever) - perhaps they broke off so early that they lost their history, especially in translation? The second ITF tul, Dan-Gun, is nearly identical to the first Shotokan kata, with a difference of perhaps 3 movements - depending on when/why they split, they may have kept the forms and renamed everything. Do you know how many patterns there are, or can you name the movements in the first pattern? That might help.

Thanks Kacey! The first form is exactly like Heian Shodan with a few exceptions. I have not yet learned the korean names - the Japanese names still stick with me though from Shotokan. All strikes are done from zenkutsu dachi/forward stance with the difference of the addition of a backfist and finger thrusts. The first set of movements is done toward 9:00 with a left gedan barai (downward block,) in left zenkutsu, then a right oi zuki (forward punch) in zenkustu. From there we transition toward 3:00 and perform the same and on from there.

 

[seninoniwashi]

Not sure about the self defense ones, but I study Tang Soo Do and that's the name of out 1st form. And yes, it derives from Okinawa/ Japan, that is also why you would recognize from your previous studies in Shotokan. The second form will be Keecho Hyung Ee Boo! Hope that helps atleast a little bit.

Thanks! In the first form you've learned, did you guys learn it with the backfist and finger thrusts as I did in Shotokan's Heian Shodan?

 

[howard]

The first form is exactly like Heian Shodan with a few exceptions.

Hi,

So your first form is called Ki Cho Il Bo, but it's just like Heian Shodan?

Now that's different from Ji Do Kwan.

In Ji Do Kwan, the Ki Cho forms parallel Shotokan's Taikyoku kata. The next set of five forms, called the Pyung An forms in Korean, parallel Shotokan's Heian forms. There are slight differences (higher side kicks, for example), but the basic patterns are identical, as are most of the movements.

Several of Ji Do Kwan's higher forms also have very close parallels in Shotokan (for example, Balsak hyung/Bassai Dai, Kwankong hyung/Kanku Dai and the Cholgi/Tekki forms).

Have you talked with your teacher about the lineage of your art?

 

[Laurentkd]

Hi,

So your first form is called Ki Cho Il Bo, but it's just like Heian Shodan?

Now that's different from Ji Do Kwan.

In Ji Do Kwan, the Ki Cho forms parallel Shotokan's Taikyoku kata. The next set of five forms, called the Pyung An forms in Korean, parallel Shotokan's Heian forms. There are slight differences (higher side kicks, for example), but the basic patterns are identical, as are most of the movements.

Several of Ji Do Kwan's higher forms also have very close parallels in Shotokan (for example, Balsak hyung/Bassai Dai, Kwankong hyung/Kanku Dai and the Cholgi/Tekki forms).

Have you talked with your teacher about the lineage of your art?

My dojang stems from Ji Do Kwan (my master's master is GM Lee, the current JDK president). However we only do Tae Geuk and Pal Gwe forms. I would love to learn the Ji Do Kwan forms just for fun... do you have any good sources?

 

[howard]

Hi Lauren,

You could try googling Master S. Henry Cho (Cho Si Hak). He closed his NYC (Manhattan) school a couple of years ago from what I hear, but his website may still be up. He used to have tapes of the Ji Do Kwan forms we did.

Failing that, you could check into the original Shotokan kata. They are clearly the basis of many of the Ji Do Kwan forms that I did in Master Cho's school.

It's been several years since I trained in Ji Do Kwan, so I'm going from memory.

Take care, Howard

 

[seninoniwashi]

Hi,

So your first form is called Ki Cho Il Bo, but it's just like Heian Shodan?

Now that's different from Ji Do Kwan.

In Ji Do Kwan, the Ki Cho forms parallel Shotokan's Taikyoku kata. The next set of five forms, called the Pyung An forms in Korean, parallel Shotokan's Heian forms. There are slight differences (higher side kicks, for example), but the basic patterns are identical, as are most of the movements.

Several of Ji Do Kwan's higher forms also have very close parallels in Shotokan (for example, Balsak hyung/Bassai Dai, Kwankong hyung/Kanku Dai and the Cholgi/Tekki forms).

Have you talked with your teacher about the lineage of your art?

No, not yet. I haven't had the time yet to ask the main instructor and unfortunately the junior I've been working with is still learning the lineage himself. Hopefully I'll be able to get some time by the end of the month.