Annyong Taekwondo

[Rumy73]

Andy, you're very welcome. You have always had something challenging - as in compelling - to say. I appreciate your insights.

 

[Cyriacus]

I will continue to train in some of the things I have learned. Other things, which I don't find meaningful, I am going to set aside to make room for new experiences.

Tis the best Option - Keep what Youre going to find most usefull, table the rest.
Good Luck, yet again

 

[MariaK]

Lets have some fun



Ultimately its up to the Individual. I for one line Training 2-3 Hours per Day, 4 Days per Week, and so forth. And at least when You get Your Black Belt, You deserve it to a reasonable extent.

I wish I could train like this . Yes, the religious aspect in martial arts (as opposed to purely sport directions (liike WTF taekwondo) or military combat fighting (like Krav Maga or Systema)) is the hardest thing to be reconciled with. I tried to check available resources (e.g. the position of Eastern Orthodox Christian church on martial arts) - the view is extremely negative and stated bluntly that if you are a Christian - you can't meditate, can't believe in Chi energy, do yoga or practice martial arts. So, seems like sport or "commertialized" version is much more easier to go along with - at least for our consienceness.

 

[Cyriacus]

I wish I could train like this . Yes, the religious aspect in martial arts (as opposed to purely sport directions (liike WTF taekwondo) or military combat fighting (like Krav Maga or Systema)) is the hardest thing to be reconciled with. I tried to check available resources (e.g. the position of Eastern Orthodox Christian church on martial arts) - the view is extremely negative and stated bluntly that if you are a Christian - you can't meditate, can't believe in Chi energy, do yoga or practice martial arts. So, seems like sport or "commertialized" version is much more easier to go along with - at least for our consienceness.

Meh. Personally, Id rather be Alive than have a Clear Conscious.

 

[Tez3]

I wish I could train like this . Yes, the religious aspect in martial arts (as opposed to purely sport directions (liike WTF taekwondo) or military combat fighting (like Krav Maga or Systema)) is the hardest thing to be reconciled with. I tried to check available resources (e.g. the position of Eastern Orthodox Christian church on martial arts) - the view is extremely negative and stated bluntly that if you are a Christian - you can't meditate, can't believe in Chi energy, do yoga or practice martial arts. So, seems like sport or "commertialized" version is much more easier to go along with - at least for our consienceness.

I don't think Yoga, meditation or martial arts are considered anything to do with religions here, I'm not a Christian, have another strong faith but have never been stopped from doing martial arts. Believing in Chi/Ki is probably a personal thing anyway. I've never seen religion being part of martial arts though certainly there are clubs/schools that are Christian I know of but that again is a personal choice if you want to go there, I imagine there's probably a few other religions that run martial arts instrcution but they certainly wouldn't do so if martial arts were tied to one religion only or in fact any religion.

 

[Tez3]

I would be very interested in hearing where you are from since no one I know has had to change their religion to practice martial arts.

Pax,

Chris

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?99605-Hello-from-Russia

 

[sopraisso]

Dear Rumy73,
You are leaving taekwondo, but not leaving martial arts.
I remember to have read Bruce Lee say martial art is not meant to be something closed, so there's no point in sticking to a system without being open to others. I agree with this statement.
That means to me you just won't stop what's most important. In the truth, you're dropping out the dojang exactly because you are looking more eagerly for the most important, and are not satisfied with what's being offered. Maybe this should be a natural point of evolution in every martial artist journey. Of course not everyone is seeking exactly the same thing, so there are differences in the paths run.
People here have had time within taekwondo, and created bonds with something it represents, so it's natural we feel sorry, to some extent, about your decision. In other hand, I believe most here understand the way of the warrior, if I can call it this way, and support your idea. By the way, it's not surprising so many people here do or did cross-training.
So good luck. And try not to stop showing up in MT at times.

 

[Manny]

I am saying goodbye to TKD. I am 38 and a black belt. While I have enjoyed my time in TKD, many things have added up and turned me off. I am going to explore hapkido and/or krav maga.

Generally speaking, modern TKD only plays lip service to philosophical and spiritual development of students. The booming commercialization of TKD and "sportification" means it is more about "getting a black belt" and winning in tournaments. Those goals are fine, but not why I got started in martial arts. Sorry, if you disagree, but I believe that it is wrong to award “Poomse” black belts to kids and black belts to teens. While they have the technique, they don’t have the life experience. Traditionally, in Asia, a child would never be awarded something of such importance. By doing so in modern society, we’ve watered down the meaning.

As compared to my experiences in Tang Soo Do/Soo Bahk Do, I have noticed a lack of etiquette and respect amongst many TKD practitioners. Yes, many of them are fantastic athletes and fighters, but they are not martial artists. I blame it on their instructors.

The commercial aspect is too over the top. Frankly, I find testing fees to be obnoxious. It is a way to bilk students. The cost of a black belt in Maryland is about $500. This is after a student generally pays $150 a month to train. Second-level dan is $600. Just incredible in the worst kind of way, that is.

Furthermore, I don’t think modern TKD to be welcoming to older people. It is a younger person’s game, because of the sporting emphasis. The fast kicking drills are not good on the knees. I prefer to kick with traditional techniques.

I am off to explore new things. I may not even join another studio. Perhaps I will train on my own or with a friend. At this stage in my life, I could careless about belts and medals. I want knowledge, self improvement and hope to be further humbled in the process. Hopefully, it also promotes inner peace, which I can use in whatever situation arises in life – the true machinations of a martial artist.

Bless and thanks to all who have provided comments and assistance along the way.

Rummy73, I agree 100% with you, the perspective you have TKD these days is the same I have and the same of other TKD guys. A few years back feeling the same like you I train Kenpo Karate (Ed Parker) and was very refreshing to me and to my TKD, I learnt new things, new aproaches to martial art and new self defense techs, self defense is my thing followed by poomsae/kata, I am not a sport/competition guy, never was and never will, yes I enjoy to see TKD matches like in the olimpics for example and loved the ProTKD aproach of several years ago, but I also enjoy watching other martial arts and practiced them.

Form me (and sorry guys) TKD is a kidie/teen sport oriented martial art, yes it teaches values and some kind of philosofic things, TKD is good for kids, it helps to develop cardio/strength and the atmosphere is a good one in the dojangs but believe me, TKD classes for mature guys like myself (44) at leat on my city is no more then a cardio exercise. Maybe one person can be wrong, maybe a small group of persons can be wrong but, when several martial artists (TKDoings) like Rummy73,myself and several TKD black belts I now get desapointed of actual TKD then, somethings is happening.

For example, there is a budy of mine who holds a 4th dan in TKD, this guys started in judo when he was a boy, there he earned a brow belt, then he switched to TKD (back in the very late 70's), afther several years he realiced the same that Rummy73 does so he continued teaching TKD but started in HKD where he got his black belt, a couple of years back he got inside Kenpo karate too and liked alot, so this guy has been in several martial arts and knows what works and waht not (for him) and has the same feelings I do about TKD.

My way of teaching TKD is very diferent the way my master does, my TKD is simpler, is more conected to ground, almost cero flying,spining jumping falmboyant kicks because they don't work in this 44 yo body so do to my students (two +40 males). I focus on self defense and poomsae and yes we do WTF sparring once in a while.

Right now I am not practicing or teaching, but maybe the next yaer as Rummy73 wants I will do something else, don't know if go back to kenpo, don't know if start shotokan karate, or maybe something else.

The dojang where I go is crowded with kids 1st pooms and black belts almost all children/teens and some moms, every single year new black belts are coming from the oven, and thinking of TKD as a bussiness is fine, but thinking of TKD as a martialñ arts is detrimental, rember the McDojos/Dojangs and belt factories we have been talking here?

Yes, spining/jumping back kicks are wonderful to watch but in the real scenario so dificult to achieve.

Rummy73 is not leaving us, he simply wants to change flavors, maybe he is bored the way TKD has become to him and I don't blame him.

Rummy73 go ahead and try something new, you will not regret it I can garantee you?

My budy Daniel who studied several yeras in Karate-Do, realize ther same and changed to Budo-Taijutsu and liked a lot and right now is an BTJ intructor, he is happy and loved what he did, he has not leaving Karate (it's his MA base) and karate did helped him to understand BTJ.

It's always good to try new things.

Manny

 

[ETinCYQX]

I'm coming from the background where taekwondo (and other martial arts) is not commertialized like in the West. Yes, the perspective is very different, but it is difficult to say what is better. The problem is that when it's not commertiazlied - it means that it is not avaialble to any person (or to general population). In most schools you will not get a black belt until you make a life commitment to it. The usual rate is 1 black belt per year (with hundreds of students) per dojang. It takes about 5-6 years to train to a level of a black belt (and I'm talking about 4-6 two hour sessions per week). No black belts to children, yes, but as an adult you also have to study philosophy, religion etc. You have to write and pass exams - written ones on the history of taekwondo, on Korean culture etc. You will have to learn massage therapy and medicine - as martial arts include this aspect as well. What about changing your religion - as being Christian you can't practice martial arts - the notion of Chi is inferior to Christian values. Yes, the instruction is free of charge as well as belt testing etc. - but it's the master who decides whether your level of commitment is enough to keep you in school. There is no half way in martial arts - you can't practice it as a hobby and expect to become a martial artist. So, is this version better than the "commertial" one?

With all due respect, what are you on with?

Massage therapy, medicine, religion, philosophy, "chi" (spelled Qi, I don't believe in it and even I know that) all have absolutely nothing to do with martial arts. I'd consider myself a martial artist and I don't bother with massage therapy or any of that other stuff, it's like saying "in order to be a black belt you must learn tennis."

 

[Earl Weiss]

I would be very interested in hearing where you are from since no one I know has had to change their religion to practice martial arts.

Pax,

Chris

Mr. Spiller,

It is not an issue of where he is from. I have run across this argument in many places from some who belong to extreme religious sects. In some cases they ask what we meditate on. (Opening and closing "ceremony" about 30 seconds of meditation) I know other instructors who are careful to downplay meditation ad philosophy for this reason.

Meditation is not allowed. Perhaps they are afraid their members might figure out they are being controlled. Learning othr philosophies presents the same issues.

Now, in some areas we do know of some who promote themselves as "Christian" TKD. Feel free to insert another denomonation between the quotes. Perhapos that is what instilled certain fears leading to certain prohibitions. It also shows the danger of linking a religion to certian activities since in some minds it may taint the entire activity as being colored by that religion.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

The commercial aspect is too over the top. Frankly, I find testing fees to be obnoxious. It is a way to bilk students. The cost of a black belt in Maryland is about $500. This is after a student generally pays $150 a month to train. Second-level dan is $600. Just incredible in the worst kind of way, that is.

It makes me wonder - what is the point of having a black belt? When the student puts on his new black belt, his kicks won't be any better, his patterns won't be any crisper, etc.. There is nothing magical about the belt. To put it a different way, what is the person getting for $500? If testing is optional, I would recommended NOT testing for black belt uinless the student's goals are competition or eventually teaching. Otherwise just practice and save your $500. I'm sure many won't agree with me!

 

[StudentCarl]

If the school hasn't gone out of business, must be enough people willing to pay that. Where I am it's way less both for membership and testing. Unless a school here also provided a magic wand, lightsaber with training, and a spot on the national team, it's hard to see many people joining or staying at that price.