And just HOW is the war going?

[tellner]

How is the war going? Swimmingly. Couldn't be better. That is, if you're a jihadi or part of the Iranian government. We've provided recruiting material for terrorists and salafists well into the next century. And we've prepared Iraq to be delivered into Persian hands.

 

[michaeledward]

So at what point do the American People say as one "Enough" and demand this mess end?

I started saying so in September, 2002.

Currently, the country suffers under the delusions of a Vice President that believes in accumulating power in the 'Unitary Executive'. This presents a problem. More than 65% of the country wish this vast sucking sound that is the war in Iraq, would end, today. But, that may very well be meaningless withour current administration.

However, I think the American People stayed with 'The Program' as long as they believed was any chance for a positive outcome. That opportunity has long since vanished, if it was ever there to begin with. Our little revolution in Iraq was about changing 'The Parting on the Left', with a 'Parting on the Right'; it was about changing their son of a *****, to our son of a *****. It was about Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitcz believing that the 26 million Iraqis' who lived under Saddam Hussein for 30 years would welcome Ahmed Chalabi as their new leader.

Bush and Co have been scrambling for a new idea since those Iraqi's said 'sorry, we don't think Mr. Chalabi is a good idea.'.

This thread started 18 months ago. I think it is an interesting look back

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=426970&postcount=1

This quote almost sounds like I knew what the hell I was talking about ..

What we should be preparing for is Genocide. The Shi'ite militia are going to exterminate the Sunni's. What strange bedfellows we are becoming. That we will be defending the former Baathists against the Mullah's of Iran.

All the above being considered, this war has a possibility of ending in the same way the Hostage Crisis in Iran ended; The day the next President takes office.

 

[jazkiljok]

I
All the above being considered, this war has a possibility of ending in the same way the Hostage Crisis in Iran ended; The day the next President takes office.

yeah, that would be fitting, another deal cut with the iranians before the changing of the throne... (or will it be iranians, syrians, russians, sauds, sunni chieftans, shiite mullahs, and daniel ortega :wink2

 

[michaeledward]

This update is interesting. It comes from an unexpected source with an unexpected cause. It hasn't had any noticable impact on the levels of violence, I think, but it does sound a slightly hopeful note.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...ems28jan28,0,4971850.story?coll=la-home-world

The Shiite Muslim leadership has informally recommended to ministerial and parliamentary delegations heading to Washington that they cultivate closer relationships with Democrats as well as Republicans.

"They have to see people from both sides, because they are both taking part in the administration of the country," Adeeb said. "Whoever is a decision-maker in America, we have to have relations with."

Many pointed out advantages to the Democrats' increased sway over Iraq policy. Government officials said they had generally found the Democratic position on handing over security to Iraqi forces sooner rather than later closer to theirs. Almost all agree on Democratic Party initiatives, squashed when Republicans controlled Congress, to prevent the building of permanent U.S. bases here. They note news reports of Democrats acknowledging the suffering of the Iraqi population.

"I see that the Democratic ideas are more related to reality," said Ammar Tuma, a lawmaker who serves in Maliki's ruling Shiite coalition. "They talk about the real problems that the Iraqis are facing every day."

 

[jazkiljok]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...9jan29,0,4626909.story?coll=la-home-headlines

today we read how our troops along with iraq national forces killed hundreds of insurgents. but who those insurgents are is quite baffling-- iraqi security officials have identified them in no particular order as.... foreign fighters, sunni nationalists, saddam loyalists or messianic shiite death cultists.

they might have well as simply called them men with guns.

we really one day ought to know who exactly we're fighting over there.

and iran-- despite George's orders to kill some of its "agents" in iraq-- have been o.k. by his friends in Maliki's gov't to set up a bank in Baghdad.

 

[jazkiljok]

two interesting articles-- one on Bush's strategy that details the generals, the guys he keeps saying he's listening to, objections to his surge plans.

the other about current intel and its dire projections for Iraq... which is getting tiring since dire, disaster, failure, etc has been essentially the only intel we've be reading about since the war began. in all the years this war has be raging-- we've never seen a published or leak report from our intelligence community that had anything good to say about progress and success in Iraq. Just warnings of bad situations getting worst, differing views of the differing enemies and ever changing political landscape that no one has any insight too. and oddly, they keep saying, that it's up to those iraqi fellows living there who are trying to kill each other to decide their future... which is a bit like saying that it's up to the crips and bloods to decide their future.

read and comment. or not.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/02/02/dual_command/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/01/AR2007020101152.html?sub=new

 

[michaeledward]

Today, I find this quote from the current Secretary of Defense.

"One real possibility is, if we abandon some of these areas and withdraw into the countryside or whatever to do these targeted missions, that you could have a fairly significant ethnic cleansing inside Baghdad or in Iraq more broadly," Gates said in a radio interview yesterday with conservative talk show host Laura Ingraham.

This comment came up with regards to the current Supplemental Appropriations Bills passed in both houses of Congress. The President has committed the Iraqi's to making progress. The Congressional Bills put specifics around the Presidents committments. And now the Secretary of Defense is blaming some future possible 'Ethnic Cleansing' on the Congressional Appropriation Bills.

If ever there is an award for 'Blame Game Balls', it would have to be awarded to Secretary of Defense Gates.

This war was a war of choice, started by President Bush. The consequences of the President's actions belong with the President.

Where did that buck stop again?

 

[Ray]

And now the Secretary of Defense is blaming some future possible 'Ethnic Cleansing' on the Congressional Appropriation Bills.

When you assess the likely consequences of your actions, do you call it "some future possible" or do you call it "planning?" It's like the 6P Principle.

 

[michaeledward]

When you assess the likely consequences of your actions, do you call it "some future possible" or do you call it "planning?" It's like the 6P Principle.

If I am working in an Administration that planned for an occupation of a country with 1 soldier for every 190 citizens, I don't call anything planning. I call it 'wishful thinking', or 'make believe'.

Currently, our military has close to 150,000 Active Duty military soldiers in Iraq. Also, we are paying for approximately 100,000 private military and military contractors. And we have trained close to 400,000 Iraqi police and military. And the death rates per day are rising.

In this instance, it is 'War Mongering' and 'Blame Game'.

 

[elder999]

Interestingly,
here is a copy of a memoranda by Ret. Gen. Barry R. McCaffrey, adjunct professor of international affairs at West Point (USMA). While he does go on to praise Gen. Patreus, and some “improvements” since the general’s takeover, as well as outline a “strategy”-which is basically to do as much as the armed forces can before Bush is no longer in office-the opening paragraphs of the report (once you get past the impressive list of people he visited on the ground in Iraq and Kuwait) are a bit telling….some tidbits:

These are the facts.

Iraq is ripped by a low grade civil war which has worsened to catastrophic levels with as many as 3000 citizens murdered per month.

Three million Iraqis are internally displaced or have fled the country to Syria and Jordan.

The Maliki government has little credibility among the Shia populations from which it emerged. It is despised by the Sunni as a Persian surrogate. It is believed untrustworthy and incompetent by the Kurds. There is no function of government that operates effectively across the nation--- not health care, not justice, not education, not transportation, not labor and commerce, not electricity, not oil production. There is no province in the country in which the government has dominance.

 

[jazkiljok]

the green zone is no longer a safe zone.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18072203/

 

[michaeledward]

the green zone is no longer a safe zone.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18072203/

Was it ever?

 

[michaeledward]

Four Years Ago Today

We were told that major combat operations had ended, as the Commander-in-Chief stood in front of a banner that read "Mission Accomplished"

It appears we are further away from peace than we were on that day.

 

[michaeledward]

Today, the United Nations official ceased the search for Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq.

UNMOVIC refused to certify that Iraq has no Weapons of Mass Destruction. The United States Iraq Survey Group, however, reached that conclusion in 2005.

Today, officially, the justification for the war in Iraq has been absolved.

 

[michaeledward]

Hate to drag up this thread again, but ....

when the former commander from Iraq says this ...

After more than fours years of fighting, America continues its desperate struggle in Iraq without any concerted effort to devise a strategy that will achieve victory in that war-torn country or in the greater conflict against extremism.

And this ...

catastrophically flawed, unrealistically optimistic war plan

Of course, General Sanchez description has the benefit of hindsight, and there is no indication that he offered any pushback against that "catastrophically flawed, unrealistically optimistic war plan".

Just have to imagine it is not a good day if your name is Bush (Unless it is Jena Bush, who seems to be getting lots of good press).

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/12/w...5966b8d2b&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss