Ancient Irish martial art "Battle through Defense"?

[Gerry Seymour]

I've been listening to a series of books by Peter Tremayne (the "Sister Fidelma" series). In it, he references an Irish martial art that translates as "battle through defense". His works are usually reasonably well researched, so I assume this is a reference to an actual art. Of course, I can't spell the name properly, because it's a Gaelic term.

It appears to be an empty-hand art, and uses principles similar to Judo and Aikido.

Does anyone have any information on this? If anyone even has the Tremayne books in print form, perhaps you can find me the correct spelling.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Do ctrl + f battle through defense on this page SISTER FIDELMA MYSTERIES - FAQS.
Tremayne appears to explain it.
Seems based on something real, but with a lot of liberties taken without full historical context.

 

[Tez3]

Celtic Martial Arts

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Do ctrl + f battle through defense on this page SISTER FIDELMA MYSTERIES - FAQS.
Tremayne appears to explain it.
Seems based on something real, but with a lot of liberties taken without full historical context.

Sweet! Nice find. I should have suspected there would be some reference to it on the site.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Take it or leave it, but I watched a documentary about this, and the best place to see ancient Irish culture, is to ask the Gypsies. They are a carbon copy, of the first civilized people, to set up camp, in Ireland. Clogging is said to have been derived from a fire dance, which can kill you!!!

 

[Tez3]

Take it or leave it, but I watched a documentary about this, and the best place to see ancient Irish culture, is to ask the Gypsies. They are a carbon copy, of the first civilized people, to set up camp, in Ireland. Clogging is said to have been derived from a fire dance, which can kill you!!!

Oh dear, if they are Irish they are an Lucht Siúil (Travellers). Gypsies come from North India.
Irish Travellers Movement - Promoting Equality for Travellers in Ireland
Genetic tests have proved that the Travellers are a distinct ethnic minority who is it believed due to evidence that they separated from the native Irish community about a thousand years ago.
I wouldn't suggest asking them about fighting, they aren't keen on outsiders asking questions, probably with good reason.
'clogging' is a dance but nothing to do with fires. morris dancing history

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Take it or leave it, but I watched a documentary about this, and the best place to see ancient Irish culture, is to ask the Gypsies. They are a carbon copy, of the first civilized people, to set up camp, in Ireland. Clogging is said to have been derived from a fire dance, which can kill you!!!

I'm not very familiar with the history of the Gypsies/Roma, but they didn't originate in that area, did they? And their culture doesn't seem to be copied from Irish culture. Much of it appears to be a holdover from their origins in India.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Yes, and I am saying, that the first civilized people had enslaved the Doma, and then went away. The Gypsies are still here. And clogging came from their fire dance.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Ireland is named after them.

 

[Touch Of Death]

While the Gypsies, are from India, the Aryans took them with, when they let India.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Oh dear, if they are Irish they are an Lucht Siúil (Travellers). Gypsies come from North India.
Irish Travellers Movement - Promoting Equality for Travellers in Ireland
Genetic tests have proved that the Travellers are a distinct ethnic minority who is it believed due to evidence that they separated from the native Irish community about a thousand years ago.
I wouldn't suggest asking them about fighting, they aren't keen on outsiders asking questions, probably with good reason.
'clogging' is a dance but nothing to do with fires. morris dancing history

That dance history would be mistaken.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I'm not very familiar with the history of the Gypsies/Roma, but they didn't originate in that area, did they? And their culture doesn't seem to be copied from Irish culture. Much of it appears to be a holdover from their origins in India.

The Gypsies were brought there. Nobody originated in Ireland.

 

[Touch Of Death]

 

[Touch Of Death]

Iran and Ireland were civilized by the same people; hence, the names are the same.

 

[Tez3]

Oh good grief that is seriously messed up, I have a good idea where you are getting this from but remember as this article says "The fundamental problem with existing versions of Irish Traveller history is that without exception they are written by people with no grasp of general Irish history."
Apocrypha to canon: inventing Irish Traveller history*

The clog dance has a well known and documented history and it's as I posted. It's a folk dance from the north of England ( where I live) Is clog dancing making a comeback? - BBC News

From an Irish dancing site...the history of Irish dance Irish Dance History - The History of Irish Dance

Another Irish site The History of Irish Dance

 

[Langenschwert]

Not surprising that wrestling may have formed the base of Celtic martial arts. Tez3's link mentioned Gouren, which I've long admired:

 

[Langenschwert]

Double post

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Not surprising that wrestling may have formed the base of Celtic martial arts. Tez3's link mentioned Gouren, which I've long admired:

That looks like fun. Would be an interesting side trip on the MA journey.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Not surprising that wrestling may have formed the base of Celtic martial arts. Tez3's link mentioned Gouren, which I've long admired:

Nice lagenschwert is this a long practiced system or a modern recreation?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Iran and Ireland were civilized by the same people; hence, the names are the same.

Ireland, Iran, Iraq, people named Irene ... all pretty much interchangeable apart from a few insignificant details.