An incident of a gun not being a magic wand

[drop bear]

I agree training is very important.

But if you are in a room and a barge is gonna barge in and try to kill you having a weapon even if you a poorly trained with it is better than being unarmed. It might only increase your chances slightly....but a little is better than none. That is a lot of our mentality on it.

Yeah. And conversely. I am not keen to hand a gun to every gumby who walks past and tell them.

"Only use this for terrorists"

 

[drop bear]

Yes if you pass the standards required to carry them.

But we have a culture where we are comfortable with guns and are experienced with them than ya'll are.

Prior to becoming a LEO, I had been handling firearms since I was 10 years old.

Yeah but too comfortable. I mean we don't even sling them generally .Because someone could screw it up. A pro gun guy in Australia would not walk in to an ice cream shop with a loaded weapon on his back.

Nobody would think a pistol that carries in a pocket is sensible.

And this comes from gun guys. Nothing to do with anti gun sentiment.

 

[CB Jones]

Yeah but too comfortable. I mean we don't even sling them generally .Because someone could screw it up. A pro gun guy in Australia would not walk in to an ice cream shop with a loaded weapon on his back.

That is not common. That is a hand full of attention seekers. In 40 years, I have never witnessed a person walking around with a rifle slung on his back.

Nobody would think a pistol that carries in a pocket is sensible.

And this comes from gun guys. Nothing to do with anti gun sentiment.

Whats wrong with a pistol that fits in a pocket? How is that not sensible?

 

[drop bear]

That is not common. That is a hand full of attention seekers. In 40 years, I have never witnessed a person walking around with a rifle slung on his back.



Whats wrong with a pistol that fits in a pocket? How is that not sensible?

How many times has your phone dropped out or slipped out of your pocket?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

How many times has your phone dropped out or slipped out of your pocket?

There are pocket holsters specifically designed to prevent that. And selecting pants (for the right kind of pocket) is also important.

I've never been a fan of pocket carry, because I carrry too much **** in my pockets. I'd end up trying to shoot someone with my damned wallet.

 

[Tez3]

If people in the UK started carrying guns the last place they'd put them is in their pants!!! Yep I know you know what pants are here but I just loved the photo. It's an antidote to mardy people.

 

[CB Jones]

How many times has your phone dropped out or slipped out of your pocket?

Never. How does a phone/gun drop out of your pocket? Do pockets in Australia not have bottoms?

I used to carry a Glock 27 daily in my back pocket....never had a problem.

 

[lklawson]

Is it true that US police officers are issued a gun as soon as they graduate from the academy? (as little as 20 weeks training?)

Sometime yes, often no, and usually, "it depends."

Just graduating the Academy doesn't make you a cop. You're not a cop until you're hired by a force or agency. Depending on the State, that might be de facto or it might not. In Ohio, where I'm at, it isn't. In many States the Academy is kinda like "Trade School for Police."

Once you're hired, you might be issued a gun more-or-less right away. Many agencies have one or a small number of gun models which they issue. Some agencies, particularly cash-strapped rural sheriff's departments will give the officer a list of acceptable models and make the new officer (Deputy) buy their own.

In any case, a comparatively high number of officer/deputy candidates already own their own personal firearms.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

8 minutes is a horrifyingly long time if you are armed as well though.

Holding off terrorists on your own with a pistol is a big ask.

Well, yes, and while that's part of the discussion, it's not what I was primarily going for.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

Yeah but too comfortable. I mean we don't even sling them generally .Because someone could screw it up. A pro gun guy in Australia would not walk in to an ice cream shop with a loaded weapon on his back.

Too comfortable? Horse feathers. Gun ownership is at an all time high in the U.S. while, simultaneously, murders and crimes with firearms, indeed violent crime over all, is at a low not seen in 30 years as well as the fact that accidental gun deaths is at, literally, the lowest point since the stats started being collected 114 years ago in 1903. It is pretty clear that there is no positive corelation in the U.S. between an increase in the private ownership and carrying in public of guns to the rates of violent crime and accidental shootings. In short the thesis that "more guns = more crime" in the U.S. is disproved.

Nobody would think a pistol that carries in a pocket is sensible.

Lots of people do. Depending on the study, somewhere between 13 and 15 million U.S. residents, crossing social, racial, and political lines, have "Concealed Weapon Permits." And that does not include States where permits are not required.

And this comes from gun guys. Nothing to do with anti gun sentiment.

You need to widen your circle of "gun guys."

But anyway, my intent wasn't to discuss whether or not Brits should be armed with firearms.

 

[lklawson]

How many times has your phone dropped out or slipped out of your pocket?

Almost never. Pockets have one job: To hold the stuff put in them. Guns are heavy and tend to drag down the pocket. Even then, the vast majority of trainers, instructors, and advocates recommend in the strongest possible terms to always use a holster, even for pocket carry.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Drop Bear, an ankle holster or a pocket holster are low concealment options. There are specific holsters for both and no they are not going to drop out. Where I live in Las Vegas where t-shirts and flip flops are the norm pocket carry makes sense. Especially on a thin frame where hiding a firearm is challenging. I would say that your "gun guys" are not that knowledgeable.

Here is a great pocket holster:

DeSantis Super Fly Pocket Holsters : Cabela's

 

[drop bear]

Drop Bear, an ankle holster or a pocket holster are low concealment options. There are specific holsters for both and no they are not going to drop out. Where I live in Las Vegas where t-shirts and flip flops are the norm pocket carry makes sense. Especially on a thin frame where hiding a firearm is challenging. I would say that your "gun guys" are not that knowledgeable.

Here is a great pocket holster:

DeSantis Super Fly Pocket Holsters : Cabela's

It happens. Is there a requirment to have a holster?

Gun goes off in movie theater after falling out of man’s pocket

 

[drop bear]

Too comfortable? Horse feathers. Gun ownership is at an all time high in the U.S. while, simultaneously, murders and crimes with firearms, indeed violent crime over all, is at a low not seen in 30 years as well as the fact that accidental gun deaths is at, literally, the lowest point since the stats started being collected 114 years ago in 1903. It is pretty clear that there is no positive corelation in the U.S. between an increase in the private ownership and carrying in public of guns to the rates of violent crime and accidental shootings. In short the thesis that "more guns = more crime" in the U.S. is disproved.

Lots of people do. Depending on the study, somewhere between 13 and 15 million U.S. residents, crossing social, racial, and political lines, have "Concealed Weapon Permits." And that does not include States where permits are not required.

You need to widen your circle of "gun guys."

But anyway, my intent wasn't to discuss whether or not Brits should be armed with firearms.

So what is your reasoning for the massively higher rate of gun deaths than pretty much everywhere else in the world?

I am not really sugesting gun ownership is the issue. But gun ownership by morons.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

It happens. Is there a requirment to have a holster?

Gun goes off in movie theater after falling out of man’s pocket

Unfortunately I was unable to open your link.

There is no requirement in the US to have a holster that I am aware of for a US citizen. Obviously in certain professions you are going to have a required duty belt and holster. This is going to sound cold but only amateurs carry without a holster. A firearm without a holster has no protection for the trigger guard. Without a holster protecting the trigger guard anything could get in and potentially pull or push on the trigger and cause an accidental discharge. Thus it is always important to have a holster to prevent an accidental discharge.

 

[CB Jones]

It happens. Is there a requirment to have a holster?

Gun goes off in movie theater after falling out of man’s pocket

Is something that happens .00001% of the time, really something to be concerned with?

Drinking too much WATER has killed 14 people, new research has revealed

More people have died from drinking water than killed by a gun falling out of someone's pocket.

 

[CB Jones]

This is going to sound cold but only amateurs carry without a holster. A firearm without a holster has no protection for the trigger guard. Without a holster protecting the trigger guard anything could get in and potentially pull or push on the trigger and cause an accidental discharge.

I disagree.

I carry inside the waistband without a holster most of the time. My leather belt actually covers the trigger guard on one side and my body covers the other side keeping everything outside and off the trigger.

Its common in undercover roles to carry this way.

Now I wouldn't suggest it to most people....but I wouldn't call it amateurish. If you have to it can be done properly and with care with no problem.

And actually there are some guns that really you have no problem carrying in a pocket like the S & W Bodyguard

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Just because people carry without a holster doesn't mean it is not amateurish. It is not safe and the firearm can move all over the place.

However, CB in your case your trying to fit in with a culture that carries this way. So I can see that you need to carry that way. In order to do the job. However, relying on your belt and body to cover the trigger guard. Well I hope that always works out for you. But I do get it that you have to carry that way some times based on your profession.

Still, it is amateurish and potentially dangerous! Having a holster protects your trigger guard and ensures that your firearm is exactly where it is supposed to be. That means you can draw it reliably from the same place all the time.

We will have to disagree on this one...

 

[drop bear]

Unfortunately I was unable to open your link.

There is no requirement in the US to have a holster that I am aware of for a US citizen. Obviously in certain professions you are going to have a required duty belt and holster. This is going to sound cold but only amateurs carry without a holster. A firearm without a holster has no protection for the trigger guard. Without a holster protecting the trigger guard anything could get in and potentially pull or push on the trigger and cause an accidental discharge. Thus it is always important to have a holster to prevent an accidental discharge.

It is not cold. I think only amatures carry without a holster as well. It was basically my origional point, Too comfortable with guns and dont treat them with the proper responsibility.

 

[drop bear]

Is something that happens .00001% of the time, really something to be concerned with?

Drinking too much WATER has killed 14 people, new research has revealed

More people have died from drinking water than killed by a gun falling out of someone's pocket.

Aparently not. And that is also my point. You have a level of gun responsibility you are happy with. It causes the damage you are happy with.

In this case yeah there is only a small percentage that being an idiot with a gun will result in an injury or death.

it is a larger percentage that becomes a victim of terrorist attack.