An ESCRIMA - KENPO Summer Camp

[GouRonin]

Why weren't you at the Zach Whitson seminar at http://www.jkkenpo.com ?
:angry: :waah: :ultracool

 

[Sandor]

Lance where were you?!

Ok, I wasn't there either but the 1,400 mile drive is a bit much sometimes.

Peace,
Sandor

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Sandor
Lance where were you?!
Ok, I wasn't there either but the 1,400 mile drive is a bit much sometimes.Peace, Sandor

That's ok. I had more training time! More for me! Me! ME! MEEEE!!

:hammer:

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by DoctorB

I would love to tell you that my partner came away unscathed, but that would not be the truth

Hmmm, a sobering thought. I would love to see more of the knife's potential the next time I'm in Buffalo--thanks.

It really is the power of the tool, combined with training that makes the Gunting a very valuble tool. BTW, my training partner used the live blade, not the trainer and there is a considerable difference in the locking potential and pain complience factors between the two.

Can you expand on this? Apart from the obvious difference in being edged and the color, I didn't notice much difference between the two. Did you mean there is another difference between the trainer and the live blade besides the availability of a knife-edge?

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by GouRonin

Why weren't you at the Zach Whitson seminar at http://www.jkkenpo.com ?
:angry: :waah: :ultracool

I was in the middle two unit inspections. One from FORSCOM and one from the National Guard Bureau (Washington DC people... ).

My unit is also getting ready to deploy to Bosnia. We are slated for April 2003. :tank: :apv: :biggun:

Sorry I couldn't make it. I am hoping to make it to the camp in August though.:asian:

 

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by arnisador



Can you expand on this? Apart from the obvious difference in being edged and the color, I didn't notice much difference between the two. Did you mean there is another difference between the trainer and the live blade besides the availability of a knife-edge?

It is really impossible to tell the difference from the photos. You are correct regarding the color and blade differences. The other differences are in the ramp and ramp serrations. The live blade has a more defined top and the edges *are not rounded* but raised and machine cut to grop or 'bite' into the skin. The ramp serrations on both the forward and rear sides of the live blade are an inverted "V" shape and quite shape to provide added grip/bite. There are also serrations on the backstrap of the handle cut into the blade lock release, again quite sharp and quite useful, particularly if the knife is being used in a reverse grip.
The Persian Butt is not as rounded for greated impact potential, than the trainer.

One of the best reasons for having a side by side comparision of the trainer drone and live blade is that you can feel the differences in these sections of the two devices. We never allow the live blade to used in a training session!!! It is there strictly for comparison purposes and allow each person to actually run their fingers along the serrations of the two tools and that allows them to understand why the trainer is so much better for the purpose that it was designed than the live blade.

I must also tell you that I have meet at least nine people who choose to "play" with their live blade and ended up cutting themselves badly enough to require stiches! 8 of 9 did the damage testing the kinetic opening feature of the Gunting against their own leg... a major no-no and something that Guro Frank, is very adament about not doing!! He must have mentioned that at least 4 times suring the last seminar that I co-taught with him in NYC in March 2002. In fact that was were I met self-inflicted wounded numbers 8 and 9. They all smile and grin sheepishly about it, but they no longer try that opening feature with either the drone or the live blade.

BTW, I was going to write you regarding another post on a different thread and mention that you might want to check out PG Tom Bolden and the Pancipanci Eskrima style. It is seperate and distinct from Modern Arnis, although the two styles can be blended. There are enough differences between them that knowing one does not automaticly prepare one to be able to know and defense the other. Pancipanci Eskrima, is more evasive. It has a nine strike system, which is based on a combination of three cinco teros or 5 strike patterns. It has an implicate largo mano sub-set in both the movement and striking components.

Sincerely,

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[arnisador]

Thanks Dr. Barber--I only held the live blade briefly and didn't have the drone at the same time to study.

I've heard Mr. Bolden's name mentioned often and I believe I was introduced to him once, many years ago. I'm back in Indiana now but hope I'll get the chance to see the art performed--I found your descriptions quite interesting and I definitely have found that there is much more out there in the FMA world than Modern Arnis! Balintawak was very eye-opening to me, for example.

 

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by arnisador

Thanks Dr. Barber--I only held the live blade briefly and didn't have the drone at the same time to study.

I've heard Mr. Bolden's name mentioned often and I believe I was introduced to him once, many years ago. I'm back in Indiana now but hope I'll get the chance to see the art performed--I found your descriptions quite interesting and I definitely have found that there is much more out there in the FMA world than Modern Arnis! Balintawak was very eye-opening to me, for example.

Hi Arnisador,

The side by side comparision of the training drone and live blade are necessary at some point for everyone and I fully endorse the idea of training only with the drone, never the live blade. The drone has all of the edges rounded, so the "bite" is not as hard as will occur with the live blade. Another factor that one must be aware of is that the Gunting live blade has a very sharp tip point and it catches on one's clothing and that adds to likelihood of people cutting themselves when the open the blade against their own leg. The drone blade is rounded and can not simulate the
the problems of opening against one's own leg.

I believe that a number of people are going to be quite surpised whn they encounter Mr. Bolden and his Pancipanci Eskrima - American Modern Arnis style. And I am glad to know that you are aware of the Balintawak System. That was one of the base arts that Professor Presas used as the foundation for Modern Arnis. I have worked with GM Bobby Taboada and his version of the art which was based on the instruction of Teofilio Velez and Jose Villasin, prior to his working with GGM Vencio Bacon. Professor worked with GM Marranga and GM Moncol, before he was taught by GGM Bacon.

So you are absolutely correct regarding the fact that there is great deal more to the FMAs beyond Modern Arnis. And while it should be obvious to everyone associated with Modern Arnis, that it is not now and never was a single unified whole under professor Presas, the bickering is very intense. Therefore i proposed the Symposium idea as a way of bringing some of the leaders within the art together so that we can share and examine the different aspects of the art as taught to people at different times by Professor Presas. In reality modern arnis, under Professor was the best example of "the art within your art" because of the manner in which Professor taught it. The newer people are too focused on the tapi-tapi side to see and understand that it is an example of one aspect of a very diverse and expansive art!

Sincerely,

jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Dr. Barber has just asked me if I would like to teach at this weekends Escrima Kenpo camp. I am honored by this invitation. I have agreed to teach a couple sessions. Looking forward to seeing you all there.

Datu Tim Hartman
Remy A. Presas' Modern Arnis

 

[DoctorB]

Here is the newest update on the Escrima-Kenpo Summer Training Camp that I am hosting this coming weekend at Erie Community College, North Campus Gymnasium, Williamsville, NY:

The format will feature two instructors teaching at the same time. The time blocks will run 90 minutes each from:
9:30 - 11am and 11am - 12:30
Lunch Break
2 -3:30pm and 3:30 -5pm,
both Saturday and Sunday.

Datu Tim Hartman, has been added to the list of program instructors. For those of you have an interest in the proposed 2003 Modern Arnis Symposium, this camp offers an excellent opportunity to preview a couple of the people who will also be instructing at that event, Tim Hartman and Punong Guro Tom Bolden.

These are participation sessions and people should come prepared to workout with the various instructors. Uniforms and belts are optional. Tee shirts and gi paints are sufficant. I am suggesting that people wear sneakers since we might take some seesions outside depending on the weather and each instructor's inclinations.

There is no minimum rank requirement. Everyone, including brand new students are welcome to participate. The real goal of the camp is to give people an opportunity to see how seemingly different arts Escrima/Arnis and Kenpo, actually share some common movements and ideas.

The projected instructor presentations are as follows, but changes may still occur at the last minute:

Saturday Sessions:

1. PG Tom Bolden - Pancipanci Eskrima & Sensei Dawad Muhummad - Parker Kenpo w/ Jujitsu
2. Sensei Ernie McPeek - Tracy Kenpo & Dr. Jerome Barber -Paradigm Eskrima Empty Hand Self-defense
3. Sensei Joe Rebelo - Parker Kenpo S/D Knife Usage & Datu Tim Hartman - Modern Arnis
4. PG Tom Bolden - Pancipanci Eskrima & Sensei Ernie McPeek -Tracy Kenpo

Sunday Sessions:

1. Sensei Joe Rebelo - Parker Kenpo & Sensei Dawad Muhummad -Parker Kenpo w/ Jujitsu
2. Datu Tim Hartman - Modern Arnis Knife & Sensei Ernie McPeek -Tracy Kenpo
3. PG Tom Bolden - Pancipanci Eskrima Kicking Drill & Joe Rebelo -Parker Kenpo S/D Knife
4. Collective Session featuring all of the instructors for demo and a Q&A opportunity.

The Camp Fee structure is as follows:

$175 until Thursday, July 11.
$200 at the door
$100 for a single full day session
Group rates for 2-5 people and 5+ people are still availible
Contact me via e-mail for additional information:
[email protected]


Jerome Barber, Ed.D.