It seems to me that this portion of the complaint deals more or less with the officers' application of the weapon, rather than the weapon itself. The question becomes, where in the use of force continuum did the Tazers lie, and were they used according to the mandated principles? If so, this is a problem with the policy makers. If not, then the officers would be personally responsible.Report said:
So, we have a tool which, when applied appropriately, may exacerbate other contributing factors? Even if this is the case, it remains a viable tool, if viewed in the appropriate context within the use of force continuum. It has versatile range options, and a high degree of successful deployment. It's less lethal than some, and a bit more than others; I don't see the weapon itself as a particularly inhumane thing.Report said:
This seems reasonable.Report said:
I think the worry (and I'm putting words in the mouths of AI and the ACLU without fully studying their reports, so take this with a grain of salt) is that tasers are considered so "non-deadly" that the chance of abuse is very, very high; thus the call for a moratorium on their use until this can be studied and dealt with properly.Tgace said:
No worriesTgace said:
One of the great things about The Study is being able to respectfully disagree about things... and even being able to learn about some stuff. I have a feeling I can learn a lot about tasers and such from LEOs.
I think you should read that report again. It has a large number of detailed recommendations for policy, training, and usage study and adjustments. It's also clear that Amnesty believes LE is best at developing LE policy; Amnesty is not an LE organization, it's a human rights organization.Tgace said:
Actually, the report doesn't call for the use of OC at all -- they suggest exactly what you suggest. From the Amnesty International report:Tgace said:
Amnesty International said:
I think you've pretty much dug to the core of what Amnesty is getting at. The taser has been grossly misuses by some LEOs, including massive increases of use of force in some agencies without corresponding increases in arrests.Flatlander said:
They don't seem to have a problem with any tool; if you visit their website, read their press releases, speak with their representatives, you'll find no evidence of the sort. Their complaints are with tools that are abused, violate human rights, and the like. Do you see any reports up there suggesting that police officers not be allowed to use handcuffs? Zip ties? Boots? Badges? Firearms?Tgace said:
...and then people died, and groups like Amnesty noticed, and called for the practices to change. History has shown that watchdog groups often have to stand up to help protect human rights; that's why Amnesty International was created.Tgace said:
The revisions they suggest in the paragraph you quoted are not their across-the-board recommendations for taser use, but simply their recommendation for those departments that refuse to suspend taser use and undergo safety inquiries.Amnesty International said:
That's how they'd have you think of a taser, too, until inquiries are conclusive.Tgace said:
They don't offer a solution for that problem, but they recommend against the taser because, until inquiries prove that it's safe, you wouldn't use a gun on a fleeing resistor either.Tgace said:
...which AI admits in its report...Tgace said:
Statistically minimal in the eye of the beholder; less likely so if you're a human rights organization.Tgace said:
I think it could be argued (probably just as well by Taser International, given their recent defenses of taser deaths) that the "fat guy" you refer to, who was hopped on PCP and White Castles, and quite overweight, was likely more likely to die from a taser than from being struck by batons.Tgace said:
I definitely see your point; honestly, rather than a complete moratorium on their use, I hope the nationwide attention simply gets LEO's to realize that tasers are powerful weapons that can kill under certain circumstances, and that training and policy will be revised where necessary; I also would like to see serious, independent, peer-reviewed studies on the effects of modern tasers, including on people with cardiac defects, people taking various drugs, in various stress positions, etc etc, so their effects are unequivocally known.Tgace said:
I think this is a good point, that AI itself even addresses in their report.Tgace said:
This site appears to be spyware-infested; IE and Firefox both are choking on it, so I can't watch the video. Otherwise, I'd love to -- if you can find another site for it, I'll check it out.Tgace said:
