My apologies, the US Chung Do Kwan Association for 1st and 2nd and KTA for 3rd and 4th.
Last edited:
American TKD Grandmasters List
- Thread starter Spookey
- Start date
Kinghercules
Blue Belt
Errrrrr.....no.....I have to stop you there.
I know the US Chung Do Kwan Associtate and I believe that a person has to train directly under someone to claim legitimacy and they don't do that at the USCDK.
Woon Kyu Uhm didn't train Steven Travis. Steven made a video sent it in and Uhm sighed to papers and sent them to him. To me that's not legit.
Anyone coming from the USCDK is questionable.
Kinghercules
Blue Belt
Hmmm....question; Since your profile pic is Steve Travis' patch, Im assuming that you know him, can you find out which 9 national championships he won and when?
Many of his records, trophies, and certificates along with others students including my father's records were lost when the second gym he owned caught on fire. Travis gets upset when you talk about the fire, so I have limited information. What I show is what I know and I know I may be wrong about the KTA, but the information is very limited.
I do know however that he went to AAU, USTU, and KTA national tournaments.
1976: He won the KTA National.
1977: He won the UCDKA National and the Us National Tang Soo Do.
1978: He won the UCDKA National, Ji Do Kwan Association national, and the USTU National.
1983: He won USTU State.
1990: He won AAU Michigan State.
1999: He won the ATF National in the Masters Division.
Obviously Travis made an Association of his own, stopped majorly training and teaches sometimes. The man is old and beat down by surgeries, He can't do what he could twenty years ago. I've seen videos of him in the 80s, he was an animal. Anyway, he learned and made his 7th to 9th forms the way Woon Kyu Uhm wanted them. Now I'm not going to claim he's the best Grandmaster ever no one is, but I have learned many good things from him and his masters. I'm not here to argue, I just want to put a good association out there.
I have gone to USCDKA classes and trained with instructors from USCDKA. They are decent martial artists, their forms are okay and they don't have attitudes, so I don't have a problem with them or their certification.
Kinghercules
Blue Belt
Ok I understand. Like I said I already know how USCDKA works and what it takes for yall to get a certificate from Master Uhm. I just dont agree with that process. My teacher was Ki Whang Kim and he didnt believe in promoting ppl that he didnt train. So thats where my thinking comes from. For me it dont make sense to be promoted by proxy when you didnt train directly with the person.
chrispillertkd
Senior Master
Master Humesky will be posthumously awarded a IX dan by the ITF under GM Choi, Jung Hwa on June 11, 2016. Master Robert Wheatley will be making a presentation of the certificate to GM Humesky's widow on behalf of GM Choi.
Pax,
Chris
Pax,
Chris
So you disagree with all Kukkiwon promotions?
Kukkiwon Masters "recommend" students for promotion (that's what it says on the paperwork) and the actual promotion must be approved by the Kukkiwon president.
Now, this is certainly a pro forma approval, but it's still true that unless you're being trained by the President of the KKW, you're being promoted by someone other than your instructor.
andyjeffries
Senior Master
This is very true. For me it's all about a chain of trust. Kukkiwon trusts me as a Certified Poom/Dan Examiner and Master Instructor to only recommend candidates that I have tested and were successful. So they are certifying that they trust me to be honest and apply the correct standards. When I issue Changmookwan dan certificates, it's because Grandmaster Kim Joong-Young trusts me to apply the standards.
My students may prefer certificates signed by me, as I'm the only one out of GM Kim and President Oh that has seen them, but if they go to another dojang (particularly in another country) my signature may not mean much. The fact that they have some standardised certificates, ratified by a world body, goes some way to say that their rank is genuine.
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
Mr. Spiller, How does that work with the cert. #s and dates set forth in posts # 41, and 42?
chrispillertkd
Senior Master
Master Weiss, as far as I can see there is no conflict at all. GM Tompkins has a lower certificate number because he was promoted before GM Humesky will be. The actual time between people being promoted to the same rank doesn't really matter since anyone promoted after GM Tompkins would have a lower number and there simply haven't been any other Americans promoted to IX dan by GM Choi since 2014. (The ITF has always had a very rare rate of prmotions to senior ranks compared to, say, the KKW, so having a total of two American IX dans isn't all that strange, IMNSHO.)
I received information that GM Humesky would be posthumously awarded his IX dan this coming weekend last week when my instructor forwarded the information to me. Master Wheatley will be teaching a seminar for some of GM Humesky's students in conjunction with presenting his dan certificate to GM Humseky's widow and I spoke briefly with Master Wheatley about the upcoming promotion at dinner on Sunday evening.
Pax,
Chris
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
chrispillertkd
Senior Master
Master Weiss, I will definitely give Master Wheatley your regards the next time I see him. He is a true gentleman.
I think the issue with the website is simply a matter of people in the ITF administration updating the website before things were "official" similarly to how someone had updated GM Humesky's website before he was awarded IX dan from the ITF.
Pax,
Chris
Here is a photo from the IX Dan presentation for Tae Kwon Do Grand Master Humesky:
Truly one of the greatest pioneers of Tae Kwon Do in the United States and the world! He was responsible for helping so many people learn the art that he loved!
Truly one of the greatest pioneers of Tae Kwon Do in the United States and the world! He was responsible for helping so many people learn the art that he loved!
Kinghercules
Blue Belt
Yes. To me thats just a scam to make money. You pay the amount of whatever level you're testing for. So 6th Dan is $600. This is what Ive been told. And then you have some Koreans here in the States scaming ppl just to make money. I was talking to someone the other day about the KKW and they use to work for this school called Tiger Den Taekwondo over here in VA. These guys charge their students for KKW certificates but never actually order them from Korea cause they know that eventually the student will stop coming or forget about it. So they just pocket the money.
I can understand the reason to have the KKW and the ITF. It makes it so there is a standard from traveling from school to school. ESPECAILLY nowa days when any Joe Schmoe is opening up schools and teaching.
Did you know that ppl dont have to be black belts to teach?
Back in the day aint no way you could run a school as an under belt!
So to get back to the topic (LOL).....I think if you gonna have a Master's certificate from the KKW then you should've trained at the KKW for whateve amount of time is acquired. Like Yoshikan Aikido. They have an instructors program that you can do which involves intense training for one year. Then you get certified. I think the KKW should have that. There should be some kind of intense training for a person to get 5th Dan. Instead of just sending in paper work and paying a fee. Thats just my thinking and Im among those that believe not everyone and their mama should be getting promoted beyond 5th Dan. But hey thats just me.
andyjeffries
Senior Master
Kukkiwon charges $350.
Where are you referring to? To open your own club in the UK you do. You won't get insurance as an instructor without it (and all the venues, at least in my area, require proof of that). Of course as any grade you could teach your friends in your back garden, but you won't officially be a "martial arts instructor".
Kinghercules
Blue Belt
Oh ok...well I dont know. I never cared about getting a certificate from the KKW.
There a lot ppl that do that here in the States. The US Chung Do Kwan Association is one and I always see ads for ppl to teach saying you dont have to be a black belt. But Ive met ppl that were given classes to run on their own with their own location and they were Gup belts working on their black belts for the US Chung Do Kwan Association.
So the UK doesn't allow instruction in arts that don't use a belt system?
Not that it matters anyway. I'll just pop off to my office and print myself a couple eleventy-first Dan Grand Poo-bah certificates. Or buy one from any of the many places that sell them online.
SahBumNimRush
Master of Arts
While this doesn't really pertain to the OP, I will throw in my .02. When my father was a 3rd geup (1987), our 3 black belt instructors all quit. My father was the next highest rank in the school at the time, and he took over running our small branch school. We traveled 45 miles down the road twice per week to our instructors' instructor's branch school for our education, and brought that material back to our school.
While this is certainly not the norm, it did work out in our case, and we developed and grew the school from there.
andyjeffries
Senior Master
It's not to say that it doesn't happen nor any judgement on whether it should or if it would work out for the best; it was more pointing out that the poster used US rules/norm without stating that, and that this is an international forum ;-)
