American kenpo...American kenpo?

[Humble artist]

Do you consider American kenpo American?
What makes it American? I have great respect for American KK so this is not a rant
As far as my limited knowledge goes,GM Parker studied Asian (mostly Chinese?) arts of kenpo,which is rather logical since that is where kenpo comes from (along with Japanese versions)
The thing I like about AKK technique is it´s straightforward&realistic approach to conflict supported with basic scientifical principles.
But back to my question...
Any takers?

 

[Robbo]

The thing I like about AKK technique is it´s straightforward&realistic approach to conflict supported with basic scientifical principles.

Who do you think brought these concepts to the front? Who re-engineered all the knowledge so that it would be realistic and follow these concepts? Who took alot of the 'mystery' out of the arts.

Mr. Edmund Parker....an American.

The bulk of the contribution to the art of AK comes directly from Mr. Parker even though he was influenced by...well....everybody.

Therefore it is distinctly his and following that, American.

Rob

 

[Humble artist]

Thanks for replying.
That is a decent answer.
Of course,considering the art´s nationality it would be a bit phony to call it "Chinese" as an example (of course there are various westerners who have created less known styles of MA with strongly Asian foundation reaching all the way to their names)
Now to still continue on this,do you (your general "you") think that there are certain things in it which make it more American?
or am I just wasting my effort on verbal expressions...

:asian:

 

[Brother John]

I've always thought that it was called "American" because it was developed and 'grew' in America. I believe that what Mr. Parker taught toward the end (late 80s) was better than 80% NEW material... material created by an American in America to meet the needs of Americans. (NOT to say that it wouldn't suit a Spaniard or Dutchman... it does) Therefore it's an American Martial Art, especially because the terms are in English (or in the language of the country it's being taught in) and it doesn't retain very much in the way of it's oriental roots.

My Great Grandfather being born/raised in Germany then moving to America, doesn't make my Grandfather "German", but an American... even though some of the customs, food and even language spoken at home... were German.

I guess if we were to indulge in that SICKENING social element known as "Political Correctness" Kenpo would be an American Martial art of Chinese/Polynesian descent.
But that would make the name too long...

Your Brother
John

 

[Humble artist]

Thank you too.

BTW,Nice...if unrelated picture?

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Brother John
I've always thought that it was called "American" because it was developed and 'grew' in America. I believe that what Mr. Parker taught toward the end (late 80s) was better than 80% NEW material... material created by an American in America to meet the needs of Americans. (NOT to say that it wouldn't suit a Spaniard or Dutchman... it does) Therefore it's an American Martial Art, especially because the terms are in English (or in the language of the country it's being taught in) and it doesn't retain very much in the way of it's oriental roots.

My Great Grandfather being born/raised in Germany then moving to America, doesn't make my Grandfather "German", but an American... even though some of the customs, food and even language spoken at home... were German.

I guess if we were to indulge in that SICKENING social element known as "Political Correctness" Kenpo would be an American Martial art of Chinese/Polynesian descent.
But that would make the name too long...

Your Brother
John

Great post!

 

[Katie Simmons]

I originally studied Tracy's, so I don't know "American Kenpo" per se, but I have always considered the kenpo I practice (and teach) very American. We prize individuality while remaining respectful of, and true to, our roots. Kenpo prizes efficiency, focus, power, speed, adaptibility, determination, hard work, dedication and general toughness. Kenpo is eclectic, blending the best aspects of other, older styles without losing sense of self. In fact, the system emerges stronger and wiser for its flexibility. It teaches its students to forge their own way in the world while providing an environment where pioneering without breaking away is possible. The very nature of our art makes it American; it embodies all of the positive qualities of America and none of the negative.

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by Brother John
I've always thought that it was called "American" because it was developed and 'grew' in America. I believe that what Mr. Parker taught toward the end (late 80s) was better than 80% NEW material... material created by an American in America to meet the needs of Americans. (NOT to say that it wouldn't suit a Spaniard or Dutchman... it does) Therefore it's an American Martial Art, especially because the terms are in English (or in the language of the country it's being taught in) and it doesn't retain very much in the way of it's oriental roots.

My Great Grandfather being born/raised in Germany then moving to America, doesn't make my Grandfather "German", but an American... even though some of the customs, food and even language spoken at home... were German.

I guess if we were to indulge in that SICKENING social element known as "Political Correctness" Kenpo would be an American Martial art of Chinese/Polynesian descent.
But that would make the name too long...

Your Brother
John

If you research just a bit you'll find they were doing a version of Kenpo in Europe during the middle ages. I've seen some of the Lithos of some artwork of defense and sword skills and recognized more than a few techniques in the EPAK curriculum.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[Blindside]

Uh Clyde,

Are you suggesting that there are universal movements in decent self-defense systems and that the moves in the 15 century manuals demonstrated something similar to what we now do in kenpo,

or are you suggesting that someone in China/Japan/wherever taught kenpo to those 15th century fencing masters?

Incidentally, do you have any idea which manual you saw (Tallhoffer, Ringech/Lichtenauer, Fiore, etc)?

Thanks,

Lamont

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by Blindside
Uh Clyde,

Are you suggesting that there are universal movements in decent self-defense systems and that the moves in the 15 century manuals demonstrated something similar to what we now do in kenpo,

or are you suggesting that someone in China/Japan/wherever taught kenpo to those 15th century fencing masters?

Incidentally, do you have any idea which manual you saw (Tallhoffer, Ringech/Lichtenauer, Fiore, etc)?

Thanks,

Lamont

Don't know, it was Robert's book that we were looking at, maybe he could shed some light on your query.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[jeffkyle]

Originally posted by Brother John
I've always thought that it was called "American" because it was developed and 'grew' in America. I believe that what Mr. Parker taught toward the end (late 80s) was better than 80% NEW material... material created by an American in America to meet the needs of Americans. (NOT to say that it wouldn't suit a Spaniard or Dutchman... it does) Therefore it's an American Martial Art, especially because the terms are in English (or in the language of the country it's being taught in) and it doesn't retain very much in the way of it's oriental roots.

My Great Grandfather being born/raised in Germany then moving to America, doesn't make my Grandfather "German", but an American... even though some of the customs, food and even language spoken at home... were German.

I guess if we were to indulge in that SICKENING social element known as "Political Correctness" Kenpo would be an American Martial art of Chinese/Polynesian descent.
But that would make the name too long...

Your Brother
John

Great post!

 

[DRMiller]

Mr. Parker never denied the roots of his art. Those roots remained a part of what evolved into American Kempo. The difference and hence the title stemmed from the fact that our culture and the ancient chineese cultures were not the same and that difference required a rethinking of practical application in a modern soceity. It was all part of Mr. Parkers thought process and sceintific approach to his art. How to make an ancient form of self defense applicable and useful in a modern American soceity. I think he did a darn good job.

 

[Kenpomachine]

Originally posted by Blindside
Are you suggesting that there are universal movements in decent self-defense systems and that the moves in the 15 century manuals demonstrated something similar to what we now do in kenpo,

There should be some universal movements out there as we are all human beings and have been for thousands of years. I.e. you don't need to go to a martial arts school to do a front kick to the groin or the shins.

I think most of the variations have come up at the same rate the systems of defense have done. Like say, shields, armors and so on. Then using weapons or not, but us being homo sapiens have thought of similar solutions to the same problems at different times of history.

That's also the main reason I think of epak as somewhat different from other ma being taught now, it tries to dig deeper in the logical and physical side of the acts and moves behind the system.

 

[Humble artist]

Thank you all.
I agree that there are a lot of similar movements in many martial arts,since physics do not change over time.

 

[Brother John]

If you research just a bit you'll find they were doing a version of Kenpo in Europe during the middle ages.

Wow Clyde, You know Dangling from towers hundreds of feet above the desert... so close to high power lines.... 'ats gotta take it's toll on the Ole' brain cells.
:rofl: (BTW: Twas a jest aimed at a brother, for those of you joining our program already in progress)
I think I know what you are talking about Clyde. I watched a show on the history chanel on a guy who's teaching medieval swordsmanship as a martial art.... looked VERY interesting.
Kenpo w/a Claymore!!!! The Scotsman in me Loves it!!!!

Dr. Miller said:

Mr. Parker never denied the roots of his art. Those roots remained a part of what evolved into American Kempo.

Definitely. The oriental 'flavor' hasn't left us, just as we still have the recipe in my family for many various German and Scottish foods... but we are American. Never forget where you came from, but not in lew of accepting where you ARE. I think that you and I are actually agreeing on this, I just wanted to restate and incorporate my analogy. (PS: Love wiener schnitzel HATE haggis!)

The difference and hence the title stemmed from the fact that our culture and the ancient chineese cultures were not the same and that difference required a rethinking of practical application in a modern soceity.

I REALLY like how you put this. You have a way with words.
But then that's to be expected of a "Dr." huh? Let alone a person who's studying under such a knowledgable instructor.

Ms. Simmons said:

I originally studied Tracy's, so I don't know "American Kenpo" per se, but I have always considered the kenpo I practice (and teach) very American. We prize individuality while remaining respectful of, and true to, our roots. Kenpo prizes efficiency, focus, power, speed, adaptibility, determination, hard work, dedication and general toughness. Kenpo is eclectic, blending the best aspects of other, older styles without losing sense of self. In fact, the system emerges stronger and wiser for its flexibility. It teaches its students to forge their own way in the world while providing an environment where pioneering without breaking away is possible. The very nature of our art makes it American; it embodies all of the positive qualities of America and none of the negative.

I don't usually quote an entire post, but yours deserves it. TRUE, you are preaching to the quire. (("Can I hear the congregation say AMEN!")) but I can read the passion for Kenpo in your words.
Inspiring, you made me want to go do Form III 100X. Bring this kinda FIRE to your daily practice and we will ALL know your name in the Kenpo world of tomarow.

later yall...
Your Brother
John

 

[cane56]

Do you consider American kenpo American?
What makes it American? I have great respect for American KK so this is not a rant
As far as my limited knowledge goes,GM Parker studied Asian (mostly Chinese?) arts of kenpo,which is rather logical since that is where kenpo comes from (along with Japanese versions)
The thing I like about AKK technique is it´s straightforward&realistic approach to conflict supported with basic scientifical principles.
But back to my question...
Any takers?

You plant a seed, the tree grows in so many ways. It grows out and up, many branches. Here is what I believe, I have met Ed Parker once. Is he fake? Couldn't tell you. But I've spared with the late Roger Carpenter, late Jim Harrison, they my friend are not fake! We keep trying to go back to the seed after the tree is grown. It's like asking is my Grandfather fake. Well you wouldn't be here if he was. AKK is always growing. And it's what the student does with what he learned.

 

[RagingBull]

Kempo here..Kempo there ... who cares as long as it works !!
It´s like in Wing Chun/Wing Tsun/Ving Tsun... but our school is original Yip man...blah blah blah.
if it works who cares?