American Gun Laws - What do you think?

[Andy Moynihan]

ZZZZZZ heard it all before, already addressed this like a YEAR ago.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=558655&postcount=22

Short answer: No.

 

[K31]

After reading all of these posts i must comment on one thing...

Is it only ''criminals'' that shoot people?

No, police and citizens in the US routinely shoot people in defense of themselves and others however, because of the nature of the news media you are hard pressed to find incidents of citizens use of firearms reported with the intensity of criminals using firearms to commit crimes.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

That's the media rule no matter the country, "No gun news if it is good news".

 

[Odin]

ZZZZZZ heard it all before, already addressed this like a YEAR ago.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=558655&postcount=22

Short answer: No.

Well how about you re-read that one then while the rest of us indulge ourselves in some fresh opinions.

( :

 

[Odin]

No, police and citizens in the US routinely shoot people in defense of themselves and others however, because of the nature of the news media you are hard pressed to find incidents of citizens use of firearms reported with the intensity of criminals using firearms to commit crimes.

The police I can sort of understand but how can an untrained citizen be allowed to make the decision of taking someones life?

 

[Blindside]

The police I can sort of understand but how can an untrained citizen be allowed to make the decision of taking someones life?

So you as a martial artist are never justified in using deadly force? What training have you received? I'm certainly a civilian, but I think I can figure out when my life is in danger.

Lamont

 

[Blindside]

Do you think if American gun laws were made much stricter and it became harder for people to get hold of guns, it would significantly decrease American crime?

:shooter:
Achilles

No.

 

[Grenadier]

The police I can sort of understand but how can an untrained citizen be allowed to make the decision of taking someones life?

Being a police officer doesn't make someone wiser, when it comes to taking another human being's life. Common sense is what dictates this.

Let's say that your wife is being attacked by a rapist, but has no firearms training. Should she be forbidden from making the decision to kill the rapist? Of course not. Common sense dictates that she is perfectly justified in taking the life of that rapist.

 

[K31]

The police I can sort of understand but how can an untrained citizen be allowed to make the decision of taking someones life?

In the (and many in this country forget this or choose to ignore it) the government is supposed to be subservient to the people and government officials are not supposed to have any more rights than than normal citizens.

Foremost among the unenumerated rights is the right to defend ones self and family.

 

[Odin]

So you as a martial artist are never justified in using deadly force? What training have you received? I'm certainly a civilian, but I think I can figure out when my life is in danger.

Lamont

I train muay thai and MMA, I have used force but have never needed to use deadly force.

By force i mean i have knocked a man or two out in my time when i have been attacked.

My point is that there are times in all our lifes when we will need to defend ourselves but im not sure there is a need to kill the person im defending myself from.

Knocking out the man that is attacking me as enough for me, it has stopped the danger.

At least from the experiences i have had in my life.

 

[Odin]

Being a police officer doesn't make someone wiser, when it comes to taking another human being's life. Common sense is what dictates this.

Let's say that your wife is being attacked by a rapist, but has no firearms training. Should she be forbidden from making the decision to kill the rapist? Of course not. Common sense dictates that she is perfectly justified in taking the life of that rapist.

but would common sense also mean that she has the right to fend off the rapist without pulling the trigger?...if she was was to turn to her attack and raise the gun up to his chest, why does she need to pull the trigger?

in this way she has defended herself without actually killing anyone.

I have always thought that police officers are trained to deal with situations like the one mentioned above..and hopefully that training puts killing someone at the bottom of the 'what to do list'.

 

[elder999]

but would common sense also mean that she has the right to fend off the rapist without pulling the trigger?...if she was was to turn to her attack and raise the gun up to his chest, why does she need to pull the trigger?

in this way she has defended herself without actually killing anyone.

I have always thought that police officers are trained to deal with situations like the one mentioned above..and hopefully that training puts killing someone at the bottom of the 'what to do list'.

Actually, while it might happen that way, a trained woman would shoot the rapist, as rape is a deadly threat, abd killing is a proper response to the threat. AN untrained woman would-and probably should-shoot himjust as well, just as legally, just as morally, and maybe just as dead.

 

[CoryKS]

In the (and many in this country forget this or choose to ignore it) the government is supposed to be subservient to the people and government officials are not supposed to have any more rights than than normal citizens.

Foremost among the unenumerated rights is the right to defend ones self and family.

Just thought that was worth repeating.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

The police I can sort of understand but how can an untrained citizen be allowed to make the decision of taking someones life?

You're incorrectly assuming that anyone who lawfully carries is untrained. You HAVE to undergo appropriate training or you do not get licensed so that point is more or less moot( this is often overlooked by people living outside the US who get the canned "beer-swilling redneck" image of gun owners thru their media(to be fair, our own media is equally unscrupulous).).

 

[elder999]

You're incorrectly assuming that anyone who lawfully carries is untrained. You HAVE to undergo appropriate training or you do not get licensed so that point is more or less moot( this is often overlooked by people living outside the US who get the canned "beer-swilling redneck" image of gun owners thru their media(to be fair, our own media is equally unscrupulous).).

To be fair, you're incorrectly assuming that anyone who posseses and uses a firearm is carrying-you're also incorrectly assuming that anyone who lawfully carries resides in a state that requires training. "open" carry, that is, carrying without concealment, is legal and requires no training in several southwestern states-at one time, in Arizona it was not at all uncommon (though somewhat unnerving) to see a tribe of bikers ride up with pistols strapped to their leg old-West style. In New Mexico, open carry is pretty much the law (there may be municipalities that restrict it, but I don't know of any) and doesn't require any training.

The U.S. is a big place, and we're not all unfortunate enough to be living in the People's Republic of Massachusettstan...

 

[Andy Moynihan]

To be fair, you're incorrectly assuming that anyone who posseses and uses a firearm is carrying-you're also incorrectly assuming that anyone who lawfully carries resides in a state that requires training. "open" carry, that is, carrying without concealment, is legal and requires no training in several southwestern states-at one time, in Arizona it was not at all uncommon (though somewhat unnerving) to see a tribe of bikers ride up with pistols strapped to their leg old-West style. In New Mexico, open carry is pretty much the law (there may be municipalities that restrict it, but I don't know of any) and doesn't require any training.

The U.S. is a big place, and we're not all unfortunate enough to be living in the People's Republic of Massachusettstan...

Move over, you got company.

 

[Blindside]

Move over, you got company.

Open carry is available in Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, and South Dakota, none requires particular training.

Regarding the training, some states, like Washington, are Shall Issue to carry concealed, and all you do is send in your application (and pass the background check) and you are good to go. No training required.

Lamont

 

[Andy Moynihan]

I like the Shall Issue, not so much the no training.

I will forever be a proponent of the right of the law abiding to go armed, but I will always qualify that with the other side of the coin: never arm an untrained person.

But being as I've already had it, a relocation is most definitely in order once my bank account allows it.

 

[elder999]

I will forever be a proponent of the right of the law abiding to go armed, but I will always qualify that with the other side of the coin: never arm an untrained person..

I've got no problem with that viewpoint at all, in fact, I share it...but in some states, it's not the law.

 

[Blindside]

I like the Shall Issue, not so much the no training.

I will forever be a proponent of the right of the law abiding to go armed, but I will always qualify that with the other side of the coin: never arm an untrained person.

But being as I've already had it, a relocation is most definitely in order once my bank account allows it.

I'm falling into the "less restrictions on our rights, the better" camp, but I do understand where you are coming from.

Regarding AZ, Phoenix high temps this week average about 110 or so. , I'd be afraid of melting my glock.

Lamont