All have internal and external elements

[marlon]

EXACTLY~!
the internal fighter will take advantage of his opponents gaps in consciousness to create timing and and a skillfull use angles for positional advantage.

pete.

i like that...gaps in consciousness..but i would have to say that external fighters do this also...not by paying attentin to thier own internal , but rather, by seeing it and sensing it in their opponent. this skill is usually the result of fight experience in external fighters. However, this does not mean that your point is not well taken

Respectfully,
Marlon

 

[pstarr]

It should be noted that the majority of neijia schools do not promote the regular practice of "meditation", per se...

Taking advantage of the "gaps in consciousness" and skillfull use of angles and such are by no means the exclusive property of the neijia. Such concepts are to be found throughout various martial disciplines, including karate, kenjutsu, and others.

Push-hands were originally utilized simply as a method of developing a certain sensitivity to an opponent's intent/movement but such exercises were not practiced extensively until fairly recently (much to the chagrin of many Taijiquan practitioners)...

The training exercises you mention for "external" stylists are also to be found in virtually all of the genuine "internal" disciplines...

It was Sun-Lutang who, in the 1930's, coined the terms "neijia" and "waijia" in referring to martial disciplines. Until then, no such distinction was made-

That said, there are some differences between internal and external methods of issuing power but those are really beyond the scope of this forum-

 

[pete]

It should be noted that the majority of neijia schools do not promote the regular practice of "meditation", per se...

that may be a result of YOUR experience and exposure

Taking advantage of the "gaps in consciousness" and skillfull use of angles and such are by no means the exclusive property of the neijia. Such concepts are to be found throughout various martial disciplines, including karate, kenjutsu, and others.

perhaps, but the internal arts have specific practices and a training methods to develop this skill

It was Sun-Lutang who, in the 1930's, coined the terms "neijia" and "waijia" in referring to martial disciplines. Until then, no such distinction was made-

the term neijia was used by Sun Lutang's seniors, Cheng Ting Hua, Liu De Kuan, and Li Cun Yi in their Shen county association, where Xingyi, Tai Chi, and Bagua were first taught as a program... 40 years earlier!

That said, there are some differences between internal and external methods of issuing power but those are really beyond the scope of this forum-

i did mention that in my previous post, therefore not beyond scope... thank you.

pete

 

[Xue Sheng]

the term neijia was used by Sun Lutang's seniors, Cheng Ting Hua, Liu De Kuan, and Li Cun Yi in their Shen county association, where Xingyi, Tai Chi, and Bagua were first taught as a program... 40 years earlier!

Just a note all were born and trained after 1669 which is when the Epitaph for Wang Zhengnan appears and where the first reference to separate schools of Neijia and Weijia appear in Chinese history

But the historic founder of Xingyiquan Ji Ji Ke likely didn't use it to seperate his art from any other it is also quite likely that Li Neng Ran Didn’t but it is possible the Liu Qi Lan might of and if Li Cun Yi did use it again he was born in 1847.

And go back further to the legendary founder (but actual historic figure) of multiple Martial Arts Yueh Fei (1103-1142), it is highly unlikely he ever trained anything he called an internal art or external martial art.