Air Rage

[JowGaWolf]

I will evaluate the situation and take whatever action seems the most likely to end the violence quickly if I am in a position to do so.

Always evaluate. Force may or may not be the best approach or the solution. There's definitely no one size fits all response.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Here's a question I have. Does being a trained martial artist matter here? What if you weren't a trained martial artist? Would you intervene?

Easy answer for me
1. Depends on what the situation requires. If the person can be talked down and the situation deescalated then martial arts wouldn't be needed.

2. Would I intervene? For the most part it depends on if I think I'll make matters worse. There may be someone with a good skill set to talk a person down . If that's the case I rather let that continue and not step in, especially if it seems like what the other person is doing is working. You'll see this on the street where there's conflict. Some will watch and not get involved unless things get worse. Some people go get involved try to do good but they make things worse. If I thought that I would make matters worse then I would let some one else handle it.

I know negotiators like to have conversations with people who are about to commit violence because as long as that person is talking back, the less focused that person is on carrying out the violent act.

 

[Graywalker]

Another question, since I have been reading about the latest attack. From what one witness stated, the flight attendant kept touching the passenger repeatedly, after the passenger warned her several times not to touch... apparently the FA didn't listen and got hit.

Would you speak up and stand up to the flight attendant, in this specific situation?
As it is clear that if you touch a person aggressively, you are more likely to get hit.

 

[Urban Trekker]

I don't like to draw attention to myself.

Because of this, I'm more likely to err on the side inaction.

Fortunately, there probably are dozens of guys on the plane who are itching to be the hero - and they want the attention and praise - who will be more than eager to rescue the damsel in distress.

Of course, if this is happening right next to me, the response may be different. If I do nothing, I will get negative attention. So since I'm going to get attention anyway whether I like it or not, I'd rather it be positive than negative.

 

[JowGaWolf]

the flight attendant kept touching the passenger repeatedly, after the passenger warned her several times not to touch... apparently the FA didn't listen and got hit.

I was raised in an environment where "Don't touch me" and "Say that one more time" and "you betta get the F out of my face." were literal warnings that someone is preparing to strike. Even to this day, I treat it as such. I don't try to call bluff on that.

My personal thoughts on things like that, is that cultural warnings vary and that's it's important to know what they mean. If someone says don't touch them, then don't touch them. Try to head in a different direction in order to get them to do what you need them to do.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Flying armbars and flying triangles, obviously.

Well played, sir.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Another question, since I have been reading about the latest attack. From what one witness stated, the flight attendant kept touching the passenger repeatedly, after the passenger warned her several times not to touch... apparently the FA didn't listen and got hit.

Would you speak up and stand up to the flight attendant, in this specific situation?
As it is clear that if you touch a person aggressively, you are more likely to get hit.

Obviously, that description lacks any real background to what's going on, so the response is pretty much "it depends". If it seems the FA is out of line, I'd speak up.

 

[RagingBull]

I don't like to draw attention to myself.

Because of this, I'm more likely to err on the side inaction.

Fortunately, there probably are dozens of guys on the plane who are itching to be the hero - and they want the attention and praise - who will be more than eager to rescue the damsel in distress.

Of course, if this is happening right next to me, the response may be different. If I do nothing, I will get negative attention. So since I'm going to get attention anyway whether I like it or not, I'd rather it be positive than negative.

yeah good post. I would keep calm unless she attacked me first. Verbal stuff i would just counter with a fast one liner & make her look dumb. she probably thought i have seen a few videos of people being kicked out of planes with as you wrote the FA always being the hero/victim and the passengers always backing them up.
sometimes it´s not worth the hassle. But she got what she deserved IMO

 

[Buka]

You do nothing, as you cant do anything and its not in your job and pending how the laws are worded you could be doing hijacking yourself. Pretty sure flight attendents have to at least do a minor unit in restriants or something in some places now days anyway. Even just by numerical standards there are usually more than one flight attendent and usually only one person who ends up doing that or maybe two.

If we look at actual hi jackings, i think the attempted cock pit breached by passangers have been done when it becomed apparnt is a sucide attack and not just seizing a plane of hostages. (if its hostages, your best bet is to just shut up and wait honestly) And if it goes horribly and you surive, petition your government for better trained police/responses for such incidents.


addendum: this is all presuming you dont have a armed police constable on your plane and they deal with the person as well. I dont know what their deployments look like, they are protected either by open secret policy or actual secret law.

No worries, Rat, if you were on a plane or anywhere else that I was, and you were being assaulted, bullied or threatened, I'd step in and protect you.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

No worries, Rat, if you were on a plane or anywhere else that I was, and you were being assaulted, bullied or threatened, I'd step in and protect you.

I wouldnt go on a plane in the first place, its a flying metal death tube.

But its the air crews job to deal with secuirty issues and any attached police. And if landed the security/police at the field.

 

[Dirty Dog]

No worries, Rat, if you were on a plane or anywhere else that I was, and you were being assaulted, bullied or threatened, I'd step in and protect you.

I think this goes to support something said earlier in the thread. Most of us here are trained and experienced martial artists, and we've indicated our willingness to get involved. Rat is not willing, but he's also not a trained or experienced martial artist.

 

[Buka]

I wouldnt go on a plane in the first place, its a flying metal death tube.

But its the air crews job to deal with secuirty issues and any attached police. And if landed the security/police at the field.

Only speaking for the U.S. here, but it's not the air crew's job at all. They have no training what-so-ever in that, nor will they ever. Strange, yes, but true.

An old friend of mine, may he Rest In Peace, was the nicest person anyone ever met. If he met you once, just for a few seconds and you were introduced - if he saw you again 25 years later, even if you had changed hair color and weight, he's speak to you by name, even the proper pronunciation. (yeah, he was one of those)

He was also one of the toughest people I've ever known. Deputy Superintendent, Boston P.D. Still ran the Gang Unit as a Deputy, boots on the ground every night.

Anyway, he and his wife were flying back to Boston from California. When he boarded he spoke to the flight attendant by the door, showed his badge, told her his seat number and said "If you need help with anything, just nod your head to me."

During the flight, two guys in their twenties jumped up, started screaming "We're all going to die!" and started ripping open the overhead compartments and throwing everything into the aisle.

People freaked, started screaming. The attendant nodded to Bobby Hayden, my dear departed friend, who got up, picked the first guy up, turned him over and smacked his head into the floor knocking him out, spun, hit the second guy with a right hand and left hook, knocking him out. Bobby and a retired Army Colonel then borrowed peoples belts, hog tied them, gagged them and dragged them to the back of the plane.

Time Magazine did a great story on it. And the last paragraph said (and I paraphrase here) Bob's wife Katy was reading a book. She never even looked up. Bobby had had the aisle seat, Katy the middle, but the guy in the window seat said "My God, you didn't even stop reading!

Katy looked at him and said, "He always does this. I've never read this book before."

 

[Steve]

I wouldnt go on a plane in the first place, its a flying metal death tube.

But its the air crews job to deal with secuirty issues and any attached police. And if landed the security/police at the field.

It's no more their job than it is the job of a waiter in a restaurant, or a sales person in a retail store.

 

[Urban Trekker]

It's no more their job than it is the job of a waiter in a restaurant, or a sales person in a retail store.

Well, we might have to second-guess that. Remember the two doormen in New York that got fired for not intervening when the Asian woman was attacked in front of the building?

 

[Steve]

Well, we might have to second-guess that. Remember the two doormen in New York that got fired for not intervening when the Asian woman was attacked in front of the building?

I actually don't know much about doormen in general, what their duties are, or the details of this situation. I have read some news articles, though. I'll pay attention to what happens next. They may very well get their jobs back with lost pay, if their termination is found to be unwarranted (either a violation of their labor contract or of state law).

Regarding whether flight attendants should be responsible for physically restraining unruly passengers, I really hope we don't have to go so far as a society that we need to militarize commercial airlines.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Well, we might have to second-guess that. Remember the two doormen in New York that got fired for not intervening when the Asian woman was attacked in front of the building?

My dad worked as a doorman in NY. When he signed up he was told that part of his duties was first-level security; in fact, he was hired specifically because of his experience as a cop. Not sure if that's the norm or not, or part of the contract of the doormen that you're referring to (I'm not familiar with that story).

 

[Urban Trekker]

My dad worked as a doorman in NY. When he signed up he was told that part of his duties was first-level security; in fact, he was hired specifically because of his experience as a cop. Not sure if that's the norm or not, or part of the contract of the doormen that you're referring to (I'm not familiar with that story).

But here's where things aren't so cut & dry: this happened in front of the property, not on it. Secondly, neither the victim nor the perpetrator were clientele or otherwise associated with anything inside the building.

I think the doormen were fired due to public pressure, and this can happen anywhere.

 

[jobo]

I actually don't know much about doormen in general, what their duties are, or the details of this situation. I have read some news articles, though. I'll pay attention to what happens next. They may very well get their jobs back with lost pay, if their termination is found to be unwarranted (either a violation of their labor contract or of state law).

Regarding whether flight attendants should be responsible for physically restraining unruly passengers, I really hope we don't have to go so far as a society that we need to militarize commercial airlines.

you dont need to militaries 5them, I'm not sure wha6 5hey even means in thos context

you can employ bouncers as cabin crew , then they can serve you dreadful food over priced drink and beat you up, they will probebly be cheaper to higher as well,

 

[Urban Trekker]

you dont need to militaries 5them, I'm not sure wha6 5hey even means in thos context

you can employ bouncers as cabin crew , then they can serve you dreadful food over priced drink and beat you up, they will probebly be cheaper to higher as well,

It might not be so bad. After all, the presence of bouncers doesn't seem to ruin the enjoyment of anyone at the nightclub that's not acting a fool.

What would be the difference if we had them on airplanes?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

The FAA needs to re-address the issue of allowing cabin doors to be opened in-flight. The first time some yob decides to act the fool on a plane after that, yeet him or her directly from the plane at Angels 45. Things should settle down after that.