Aikido vs Kicks....

[Spinedoc]

This is an area that is part of the Aikido curriculum, as is kata guruma, gensake otoshi, etc. that we simply don't practice in many dojos as much as we should...partly, it is because many Aikidoists don't know how to kick really well, partly, it is because the ukemi is....shall we say....challenging.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=524395871076272

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Yeah, most Aikidoists are crappy at kicking. Most good kickers are crappy at ukemi. You want some training partners who are good at both to really practice this sort of stuff properly.

 

[gerardbu07059]

Try some hapkido

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[Hanzou]

I would love to see this done live just once. Like get a fighter in there trying to kick the Aikidoka's face in, and see what happens.

Until then we just get stuff like this....

 

[drop bear]

Yeah, most Aikidoists are crappy at kicking. Most good kickers are crappy at ukemi. You want some training partners who are good at both to really practice this sort of stuff properly.

Good luck finding a kicker to volunteer for that.

Actually get me a decently sprung floor and I might.

 

[TSDTexan]

I would love to see this done live just once. Like get a fighter in there trying to kick the Aikidoka's face in, and see what happens.

Until then we just get stuff like this....

Looks like a demo, not a fight.
Showcases a lack of kicking proficency...
Or hides actual ability by faking inability.

Demos are a "thrown fight" by way of choreography.

 

[Dirty Dog]

That does look quite demo-ish to me. And the kicks are about what I'd expect from someone whose training didn't actually include kicking.

I'd volunteer for something like this, if we could at least use some grappling mats. I'm too old to get dropped on a hard floor 30 times in one day.

 

[TSDTexan]

Yeah, most Aikidoists are crappy at kicking. Most good kickers are crappy at ukemi. You want some training partners who are good at both to really practice this sort of stuff properly.

Which raises the issue . . .
How good can a defense be developed when challenged by substandard attacks/pressure testing?

If you are practicing kick defense against a skill level below a first year striker at a random mcdojo, how effective will it be in a real world event against a muI thai, or TKD guy who is 5 years in training?

Here's where it's a good idea to offer regular cross style/school sparring to upper rank students.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Which raises the issue . . .
How good can a defense be developed when challenged by substandard attacks/pressure testing?

If you are practicing kick defense against a skill level below a first year striker at a random mcdojo, how effective will it be in a real world event against a muI thai, or TKD guy who is 5 years in training?

Here's where it's a good idea to offer regular cross style/school sparring to upper rank students.

I do not disagree with what you've said at all.
However, I do think it's worth remembering that in the real world, fighting is pretty uncommon and can usually be avoided. And when it cannot, it's unlikely to be against a trained opponent. You're playing the odds.
Training with outside exposure > strictly in-style training > watching YouTube videos > have another beer.

 

[TSDTexan]

I do not disagree with what you've said at all.
However, I do think it's worth remembering that in the real world, fighting is pretty uncommon and can usually be avoided. And when it cannot, it's unlikely to be against a trained opponent. You're playing the odds.
Training with outside exposure > strictly in-style training > watching YouTube videos > have another beer.

My choice for having my students widen their exposure was to help them understand what would work against a boxer, and what wouldn't.

Which came about in talk over a game of Dominos with a gym owner. He wanted to get his boxers thinking outside the ring.

What would happen if you found yourself in a fight with a kicker.

Some students had to improvise adapt and develop problem solving. So it was a learning experience.

Rules were simple 65% power to strikes, taped hands, no kicks to the knee, no throws, mouthpiece required.

Rounds (3) were 4 minutes, 2 minutes, and 4 minutes.

 

[JP3]

Good luck finding a kicker to volunteer for that.

Actually get me a decently sprung floor and I might.

It's a long way to fly just to work on this skill subset, but c'mon. My floor is "sprung." Actually, it's a floating plywood decking over patterned 3"x3"x4" impact-absorbing foam rectangualoids (my invented word of the day) on top of which has a 2" firm bjj-style mat covered with a vinyl surface since we couldn't come out of pocket, yet, for a canvas floor. But it does work, and it's a very forgiving floor to learn... ah... uncomfortable ukemi.

One of the top three hardest times I've thrown someone was the time I threw my double 3rd TKD/TSD guy with an O-uchi when he was trying to stick me with a round kick. I really didn't think he would fly that far. Neither did he.

I think the hardest thing for a non-kicker person to understand is just how ffast that foot can get off of the floor and be In the target. Anyone can throw a kicker if the kicker just hangs out with a foot in the air... but we/they don't.

 

[drop bear]

It's a long way to fly just to work on this skill subset, but c'mon. My floor is "sprung." Actually, it's a floating plywood decking over patterned 3"x3"x4" impact-absorbing foam rectangualoids (my invented word of the day) on top of which has a 2" firm bjj-style mat covered with a vinyl surface since we couldn't come out of pocket, yet, for a canvas floor. But it does work, and it's a very forgiving floor to learn... ah... uncomfortable ukemi.

One of the top three hardest times I've thrown someone was the time I threw my double 3rd TKD/TSD guy with an O-uchi when he was trying to stick me with a round kick. I really didn't think he would fly that far. Neither did he.

I think the hardest thing for a non-kicker person to understand is just how ffast that foot can get off of the floor and be In the target. Anyone can throw a kicker if the kicker just hangs out with a foot in the air... but we/they don't.

The other issue is risk. If missing the catch and eating the kick doesn't really matter then you can go for your life with throws. If being kicked in the face scares the crap out of you. You tend to be less reckless.

 

[jks9199]

There's a fall at about 0:50 that just looks terrible... I suspect it's the reason the demo stopped.

 

[TSDTexan]

The other issue is risk. If missing the catch and eating the kick doesn't really matter then you can go for your life with throws. If being kicked in the face scares the crap out of you. You tend to be less reckless.

Been kicked in the face too many times to be scared of em. I have respect for em. I am a big guy with very long arms who prefers infighting. I would prefer to sweep a kick to the head, rather than a throw.

 

[jobo]

This is an area that is part of the Aikido curriculum, as is kata guruma, gensake otoshi, etc. that we simply don't practice in many dojos as much as we should...partly, it is because many Aikidoists don't know how to kick really well, partly, it is because the ukemi is....shall we say....challenging.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=524395871076272

thats excellent, the more I see of aikidio, the more impressed I become, if they would just lose the skirts id sign up

 

[JP3]

The other issue is risk. If missing the catch and eating the kick doesn't really matter then you can go for your life with throws. If being kicked in the face scares the crap out of you. You tend to be less reckless.

Yup...

My time in Muay Thai changed my outlook on my body/head protection priorities. One can condition the torso to take tremendous blows by just being in shape, by learning to fade or turn slightly, by accepting the impact on slab muscle, with kiai and so forth... most of which options really aren't as available for defending your dome. Best thing about defending kicks to the head is that it's a rapidly moving target..... But, best imo to keep the hands way up there and keep them feet off my head. Feel free to kick me in the chest, abs, hips legs. That, I can deal with. But mess up once with a good head kick and you are most likely done for a while. And no... this is not a call out to you fearsome kickers who can put your foot through a '76 Monte Carlo... I won't be there just waiting, that's not what I'm saying.

 

[JP3]

thats excellent, the more I see of aikidio, the more impressed I become, if they would just lose the skirts id sign up

I think you'd like my Tomiki stuff Jobo. We hardly ever wear skirts. Or dresses for that matter. Lots of sensible shoes though.

 

[drop bear]

Yup...

My time in Muay Thai changed my outlook on my body/head protection priorities. One can condition the torso to take tremendous blows by just being in shape, by learning to fade or turn slightly, by accepting the impact on slab muscle, with kiai and so forth... most of which options really aren't as available for defending your dome. Best thing about defending kicks to the head is that it's a rapidly moving target..... But, best imo to keep the hands way up there and keep them feet off my head. Feel free to kick me in the chest, abs, hips legs. That, I can deal with. But mess up once with a good head kick and you are most likely done for a while. And no... this is not a call out to you fearsome kickers who can put your foot through a '76 Monte Carlo... I won't be there just waiting, that's not what I'm saying.

Head kicks are one of those things that can legitimately cripple you. Not just loose a fight instantly. but go to hospital.

 

[CB Jones]

My friend who is former pro football player (6'4, 330 lbs, plus insanely quick and flexible) he seems to KO at least somebody every few tournaments with a head kick. Last tourney he KO'd 2 people (to make matters worse, one was just an exhibition match). Its supposed to be light contact to the head, but with his mass it only takes a little acceleration and good night.