Although martial arts can be a fountain of youth, ironically it can also shorten your lifespan if you're not careful, so be careful if you want to live to be 108 plus.
After 70 years in BJJ Flavio Behring promoted to White Belt with Red Bar
- Thread starter Danny T
- Start date
You couldn't be more wrong.
Say you and I both open schools down the street from each other, both teaching the same style. You've got two stripes on your belt. I have eight. All other things being equal, who do you think the average Joe is more likely to sign up with?
Say the schools are far enough apart not to really directly compete. But, ooops, you've still only got two stripes, and the Big World Strangling Org we're both part of requires someone higher than you to sign off on promotions. Or one of your students is ready for their own second stripe.
dvcochran
Grandmaster
I have no idea how old you are but I know you have been on the forum for a while. I get what you are saying but as you get older your perspective may change.
It does get in my crawl to see a guy who never really done much other than maybe have a good fighting career get promoted. That is not "the way" at all.
I expected the financial counter. I feel there are tangible returns from a long and fruitful MA career, both financial and otherwise. There have been for me anyway.
That only applies if you teach the style you've got your two stripes or eight stripes in.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Ah 108. That is an auspicious number.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Nobody should pursue rank. Rank should just happen along the way.
At any rate, a high rank awarded to someone who has put in a lot of years and taught a lot of folks is a recognition and an indicator of where a wealth of experience and wisdom probably lies. So it can be informative in that regard.
Good catch. Didn't notice it when I first read his post.
You are pursuing rank if you're pursuing the standards for rank.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
No, I just train to the best of my ability. If my Sifu ever decides that I merit a rank, then he makes that decision. Thankfully our school does not dwell on those things though. Life is better without it, in my opinion.
I used to train in a school that followed a rank structure. One of the reasons I drifted away from that school was because I realized I did not want nidan. I had no interest in what was coming next in the curriculum of that system.
OP
OP
Danny T
Senior Master
Not really concerned about it. If I make it great! If not, I've had a good life for the most part. I mostly do what I do in whatever manner I do it to the best of my abilities...a sort of 'hang on because the ride is going to be bumpy but it will be interesting!
You mention a Sifu, a Sifu is the equivalent of a Sensei in many of the Chinese martial arts which traditionally and generally do not use formal ranking systems although many of the modern schools that teach such arts have adopted various ranking systems to their art.
I take it that you must've trained in some Japanese martial art in the school you used to go to since you mention the rank of Nidan which is Second Dan in such arts. You said you didn't want it and you didn't want what was coming next, did you not want to learn the material?
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Yes, I currently train in a Chinese/Tibetan method. Technically there is a belt system, but exactly when it was developed, and by whom, I do not know. As long as I have been involved, it has been barely mentioned. I have never been given rank, I have not seen anyone promoted nor given rank, but I do know that my senior classmates were given rank in the past. However, Sifu has told me that I am allowed to teach, if I choose to, so rank is not at all connected to teaching, etc. So the ranks are pretty irrelevant and it seems to me that he is just letting them fade away.
I used to train in a kenpo lineage, and I found the curriculum to be oddly structured in a way that didnāt seem to work well for me. I honestly felt that to continue learning more of the curriculum would simply do me no good and my efforts were better spent on other things. So yes, I decided I didnāt want to learn more of the curriculum, and that leads to the obvious next conclusion: I had no interest in gaining the rank that would come with learning more of the curriculum.
Depending on the style, Imo all the material you need can be taught by black belt (I'd argue all the important stuff is taught by green belt/3-4th kyu or so in a lot of styles), and you would be better off practicing that than learning the "fluff" stuff afterwards.
So with the Kenpo it sounds like you had learned what you wanted to learn from it and had moved on, that sometimes happens.
As for the system you currently train in, it sounds like rank is not taken all that seriously there and that its being phased out. From what I see, more and more schools are developing formal ranking systems for styles that traditionally didn't use rank as in this day and age it can sometimes be hard to fit into the world of martial arts without some sort of ranking system, but I suppose it can happen the other way around too.
As for what you said earlier about rank just happening along the way without the student pursuing it, that depends. In the Gracie Jiu Jitsu and the Goju Ryu Karate that Im training in now more or less that's how it is. With the Gracie Jiu Jitsu when you've fulfilled certain factors such as attending an x number of classes and obtaining a certain degree of knowledge and skill you get promoted with a stripe on your belt or your next belt if you've got the maximum number of stripes. With the Goju Ryu Karate when the instructor sees you're ready he will test you and you will get promoted with either a stripe on your belt or your next belt depending on how much you know and how skillful you are with what you know. So with both those schools rank does happen along the way.
With the first martial arts school that I started to really seriously train at, however, it was different. Tests were run about every four months and it was up to you as the student to sign up and take the test. You had to of course do well enough on the test in order to pass and get promoted but if you didn't sign up and test in the first place than you obviously wouldn't get promoted. So you did have to pursue rank, to some extent, in order for it to happen. You had to make the decision to sign up and test, otherwise you would stay a white belt indefinitely.
Another thing you could do, as you suggested before, is to buy a belt of whatever color and stripes you want to use when you're running your school. That way you can have just as many, or more stripes than the other guy. From what I remember you've even mentioned businesses in some of your past posts that custom make belts of whatever color, stripes, and designs you want.
And now you're changing the subject from the financial benefits of high rank to fictitious rank. Do you not see the difference?
Well you see that's the thing, if you're a fake sooner or later it will bite you in the butt. That's why I would not want to hold a fictitious rank. Even if I could for awhile fool other people I would not be fooling myself. I would know that Im a fake.
Being of a legit high rank and running a school, yes as you pointed out there are financial benefits to that not the least being that more students will train under you than under somebody else of lower rank whose teaching the same style, but that is not the main reason I would want to be legit and not hold a fake rank. I am pointing out that it is offensive to suggest that somebody be a fake.
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