addressing black belts
- Thread starter hungryninja
- Start date
ATC
Senior Master
As Sir.
ATC
Senior Master
Yes, Because I am not staff, I don't get paid. Only staff members can be Instructors no matter rank (even though you have to be at least a Black Belt). We have one 1st Dan and 1 3rd Dan as Instructors as well as 3 Master Instructors. If I were to work for them then I would be an instructor. We even have 3rd dans that are only assistants. I just can't afford to be an instructor. Even though I am there everyday and teach the late classes.
masterchase
White Belt
Originally Posted by masterchase
For our association, Mr. Mrs. Miss for all black belts 1st-4th dan, even junior black belts. Master for 5th dan and higher. Grandmaster Lee for our kwan jang nim.
I thought GM UHM Woon Kyu was your Kwan Jang, as opposed to GM LEE Tae Sung?
We are chung do kwan Taekwondo. But GM LEE Tae Sung is our Kwan Jang for our association of 13 dojangs.
jthomas1600
Blue Belt
In our TKD school the owner/head instructor is Master Lee. We have two ladies who are black belts and work at the school. They do some instructing, but mostly they help out with administrative tasks and they are addressed as Miss "first name". That format is pretty popular these days I think. There is one male black belt who also works at the school. He does more instructing than the two ladies and is referred to as Instructor "first name". All non staff black belts are known by the first name except in the case of kids addressing adults. Generally regardless of the belt (but certainly if it's a black belt) kids call adults Mr., Miss, or Mrs.
granfire
Sr. Grandmaster
:lfao:
Namii
Green Belt
Haha! Funny.
mastercole
Master Black Belt
I follow this.
1st Dan/Poom to 4th Poom/5th Dan, Yudanja (Yupoomja) is called Master
6th Dan to 9th Dan, Kodanja is called Grandmaster
Instructors are called Sabumnim
Master is a courtesy title for Black Belts, same as saying Mister, or Ma'am.
Grandmaster is a courtesy title for High Dan holders, same as saying Sir, or Ma'am
Sabumnim is only for main instructors who have been certified as such
andyjeffries
Senior Master
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
So a first dan in your club is called "master"? Im not knocking it, Ive just never heard of that before.
mastercole
Master Black Belt
It's nothing I made up, I have been doing that for years now, ever since I returned from the 1st Foreign Instructors Training Qualification Training Course at the Kukkiwon's World Taekwondo Academy in 1998.
It was then debated at length in the early days of internet Taekwondo debates. I received written clarification for both Kukkiwon and WTF, and the main editor of the WTF, Kukkiwon and KTA websites, GM LEE Kyong Myung (co author of the Modern History Book). He was the reviewer of the English Edition of the Kukkiwon Textbook, Chairman of the WTF Education Committee and main writer of the WTF Poomsae Judges Textbook.
I also asked this question of GM's PARK Hae Man and KIM Soon Bae, all writers and editors of the Kukkiwon Textbook. Even after all this, it is still a hot potato, but that is why I enjoy it so much! It certainly rocks the boat of so-called tradition that has been set in place in foreign Taekwondo schools. Reason? Before 1998, on Korean Taekwondoin could take the instructor course, so all kinds of weird rules popped up to fill in the "instructor" title gap.
Here is what we have to consider: Yudanja is 1st to 5th Dan. I think we have known this for a long time, but not really paid attention to it. Kodanja is from 6th to 9th Dan. We have known this too, for a long time. Why the separation?
We have also known, well, since 1998, that Sabum was not just some title given out at 4th, 5th or whatever dan, that it is an actual designation by Kukkiwon. It means instructor, and according to Kukkiwon, the only way to receive this qualification is to #1. attend the "jidoja yunsuwon" or leadership academy course held by the "World Taekwondo Academy" at Kukkiwon (now in some other nations as well, like USTC in the USA), which is held for us foreigners once a year in Korea around July. Once you have successfully completed that course, and received your "graduation diploma", you can now use that diploma and apply to take the "Sabum Gye Gyuk Jung" exam (only if you hold 4th Dan Kukkiwon and above). If you pass that test, you will gain a certification from Kukkiwon that states that you are a qualified "Taekwondo Sabum", or Taekwondo Instructor. Their are 3 classes of Sabum. 3rd, 2nd and 1st.
Of course in any dojang, anything goes!
mastercole
Master Black Belt
Just a quick note:
There was a lot of other things that I learned at that course. One of them was centered around discussions that we had been having HUGE debates over in the 90's. Puunui in specific wanted to know if the Poomsae taught at the Kukkiwon Instructor course matches the Poomsae we see in the 1972 KTA Taekwondo Textbook (and that his instructor taught).
The answer was a profound YES, practically to the T. And not only that, Puunui's instructor was the man teaching us our basic motions for the Poomsae at the Kukkiwon. He is also in that 1972 book as a Poomsae model, he also was on the Poomsae committee that created the Poomsae. My instructor was a graduate of that same course 18 years earlier in 1980, and his teacher was GM LEE Chong Woo, the director of the Poomsae Committee. So Puunui and I, having never met in person at that time, completely agreed on the issues surrounding Poomsae.
Later on, we finally met at some national event (Doug Feushel was talking to Jidokwan President LEE Seung Wan about Pro Taekwondo in the lobby lounge area). Later on, at some point Puunui and I were standing around with various well know Taekwondoin from the USA and explaining these points about Poomsae stressed at the instructor course, such as narrow and short stance, tight compact ending to the movements, etc. People thought we were crazy. I remember Garth Cooley though took a keen interest in what we had to say, it was different and he was curious, but Garth is a true Champion and wanted to see what we were talking about and did not dismiss us like some others did. Interesting. Now today Garth has went on to become a USA Poomsae team member, adapting the correct Poomsae, and probably knows more about Poomsae than most anyone in the USA. I'm not saying this was because Puunui and I discussed (I even demonstrated) this with him, but it is because some folks, like Garth, are always looking for the cutting edge and the true path, he searched it out his own way and had a 2nd life as a Poomsae champion, after he retired as a sparring champion.
But this did not come from me, or Puunui, it came form the "source".
There was a lot of other things that I learned at that course. One of them was centered around discussions that we had been having HUGE debates over in the 90's. Puunui in specific wanted to know if the Poomsae taught at the Kukkiwon Instructor course matches the Poomsae we see in the 1972 KTA Taekwondo Textbook (and that his instructor taught).
The answer was a profound YES, practically to the T. And not only that, Puunui's instructor was the man teaching us our basic motions for the Poomsae at the Kukkiwon. He is also in that 1972 book as a Poomsae model, he also was on the Poomsae committee that created the Poomsae. My instructor was a graduate of that same course 18 years earlier in 1980, and his teacher was GM LEE Chong Woo, the director of the Poomsae Committee. So Puunui and I, having never met in person at that time, completely agreed on the issues surrounding Poomsae.
Later on, we finally met at some national event (Doug Feushel was talking to Jidokwan President LEE Seung Wan about Pro Taekwondo in the lobby lounge area). Later on, at some point Puunui and I were standing around with various well know Taekwondoin from the USA and explaining these points about Poomsae stressed at the instructor course, such as narrow and short stance, tight compact ending to the movements, etc. People thought we were crazy. I remember Garth Cooley though took a keen interest in what we had to say, it was different and he was curious, but Garth is a true Champion and wanted to see what we were talking about and did not dismiss us like some others did. Interesting. Now today Garth has went on to become a USA Poomsae team member, adapting the correct Poomsae, and probably knows more about Poomsae than most anyone in the USA. I'm not saying this was because Puunui and I discussed (I even demonstrated) this with him, but it is because some folks, like Garth, are always looking for the cutting edge and the true path, he searched it out his own way and had a 2nd life as a Poomsae champion, after he retired as a sparring champion.
But this did not come from me, or Puunui, it came form the "source".
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
Oh, that makes sense. We are not kukkiwon which is probably why I havent heard of that before.
