Adam Hsu Bagua Article

[Xue Sheng]

From the Ground Up Bagua Zhang's Basic Training By Adam Hsu

some clever but perhaps not very honest martial artists began promoting the idea of the so-called “internal styles.” No matter how fancy their words, what they were actually saying was that one can reach the highest levels without really sweating.

How wonderful! Practice the Eight Changing Palms the first day, first class, first hour. Bask in the glow of the fascinating palm changes, the lovely flowing circular movements of your hands and arms. And yes, how could we forget. Dive right into the ancient Chinese philosophy and get an immediate hit off the feeling that this art and its practitioners are doing something deep, holy, and righteous.

 

[oaktree]

I like Adam's writings they are good. I get that it takes time,sweat and blood to get good at Bagua. I get it we need to develop fundamentals and all that.
But my problem with this article is this:

Some people have no desire to get into the depths and are happy with this instant elevation of their empty practice. Then we too can feel happy that bagua gives them some satisfaction. I also believe there are many people who don’t want to own a pretty, empty shell and have the vision and potential to reach for the deeper levels of the art. If they haven’t engaged with a real bagua master or school, they might be vaguely dissatisfied or feel something is lacking. Or, never knowing the treasures to be found in the real bagua

To me this sounds like boasting. Adam in his article does not go into what the basics are or what his standard of what real Bagua is.
This is a similar problem with the author Lu Shengli in his work combat techniques of Taiji, Xingyi and Bagua

It's not that these authors are not good at what they do or do not have wealth of knowledge; and I am sure they have come across many people who were/are not as skilled. In presenting an article the author needs to present why he feel other people are not engaging in real bagua, give examples of that. What basics is he refering to is it standing posts, developing leg strength, walking circle? Anyway I could be wrong but that is how the article comes off to me. It is something to think about when we train are we training enough in the fundamentals and basics?

 

[Xue Sheng]

I don’t see it as boasting I see it more as disgust with a side of sarcasm…because I have been there more than once with Taijiquan…but then what do I know about how Adam Hsu thinks

And of course he is not telling you the basics because he has classes to populate and DVDs to sell

I may be way off here because I have very little Bagua training and most of what I am going to type next comes from books but I think he is referring to proper training procedure and understanding the eight basic palms as well as leg postures and stepping before you jump into the basic 8 palms form… but like I said…I could be wrong since I am not really a bagua guy

 

[oaktree]

Valid points Xue. Maybe something happened in his class or someone he met and it inspired him to write this article.
When reading the text there seems to be a dissatisfied tone with what other martial artist are doing. He may have meant it as if directing certain types of people.
Again, we can only speculate and maybe Adam will provide examples to support his thesis.

What is special basic training? What is real Bagua according to Adam? I am sure if we asked many different masters we might get similar things brought up but who knows if that any of it is what Adam is addressing.
What am I to make of statements like this:

While their training may look as if it’s the real thing, their way to do it is actually all wrong. Real bagua may be one of the most difficult kung fu styles to find anywhere in the world, China included.

So that means everyone who is training it is wrong. Again Adam does not provide information as to how we the rest of the world are doing it incorrectly.
Of course there are people doing it wrong, but to say Baguazhang is difficult to find with a legit line is rubbish.

Again I like Adam I just disagree with alot of what is said in this particular article. Of course I am no were near Adam's level but as one of my college professors said"
If an elementary school kid can counter your arguement and make a valid point against it than you did not provide a strong case for it."

 

[Xue Sheng]

Oh YEAH... Why I otta...:uhyeah:

Good point... but then if you talk to my taiji sifu just about everyone trains taiji wrong

 

[oaktree]

Ah I'll just buy an Adam hsu sword and fall on it gracefully :uhyeah:

 

[Takai]

Ah I'll just buy an Adam hsu sword and fall on it gracefully :uhyeah:

Cute. I am certainly not a Bagua stylist and cannot comment of "proper" or "improper" training in that regards. While I may not like how everything is phrase in this article that is just my own opinion. However, I think that the basic point he is making is that a lot of "traditional" training no longer happens. Commercialization, keeping the attention of the masses has given way to a lack of fundamental training. Does it apply to every school? Certainly not. But just a quick look around youtube shows where a lot of "traditional" MA's have gone.

Do I train 100% traditionally? Probably not my work requirements just won't allow it. Does that mean that I am not doing it right? Nope, just differently. I have always been a firm believer in the basics. You always to your lowest level of competence when the adrenal dump hits you. I want my basics to be razor sharp.

As sifu says,"Your kung fu journey is like a sword. You start with a lump of metal, heat it up, pound on it, temper it and then grind away until it is razor sharp."