A question and a response that puzzled me

[puunui]

Oh, I don't know, probably anyone who has ever taken the time to learn the art and to transmit it to others. l

So in your opinion, anyone who has ever taken the time to learn the art and transmit it to others did more for Taekwondo than President Samaranch?

 

[miguksaram]

Are we talking who did more for Taekwondo as a whole, encompassing all factions of the art? Or who did more for Taekwondo as a sport? There's 2 different answers there. The reason i say it cheapens it is most people who have trained their entire life will hardly get past 6th dan, irrespective of skill and knowledge, and if i was at that level watching some European who's probably never kicked higher than his waist his entire life becomes some sort of TKD god, i'd be pretty p***ed.

Then it must have made you vomit when S.K. Pres. Lee gave Obama an honorary black belt. As well as when Jhoon Rhee gave honoray black belts to other presidents. We are not putting anyone up to God or even Demi-god status We are simply recognizing that somebody believed in TKD so much that they helped put it as a medal event in the olympics. Without his help it may have never acheived that status.

I believe he should be given an honorary 10th dan. He had nothing to gain from all of it. People...it is HONORARY. I really doubt he was out the next day opening up a dojang or even advertising it on his resume.

 

[puunui]

Are we talking who did more for Taekwondo as a whole, encompassing all factions of the art? Or who did more for Taekwondo as a sport? There's 2 different answers there.

Are there?

The reason i say it cheapens it is most people who have trained their entire life will hardly get past 6th dan, irrespective of skill and knowledge, and if i was at that level watching some European who's probably never kicked higher than his waist his entire life becomes some sort of TKD god, i'd be pretty p***ed.

Does President Samaranch receiving a Kukkiwon 10th Dan make him some sort of TKD god? And what does the fact that he is European have anything to do with it?

 

[leadleg]

Over the years I have seen so many gov.,mayors,even buisnessmen recieve honarary bb's for doing nothing but show up to a tourney or event that it means nothing at all.At least this guy did something for it.

 

[puunui]

You stated that he did more than any individual beside Dr. Kim for taekwondo, which I feel is a stretch.

That's ok, as long as you recognize that you are disagreeing with Dr. Kim and the taekwondo pioneers, who were the ones who gave President Samaranch that 10th Dan. Which I guess is the point hopefully is getting through from all these posts, which is: More and more we see juniors, instead of taking the time to understand what their seniors did and why they did it, choose instead to ignore that and substitute their own opinions on whatever subject, based on their own limited personal experience.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

That's ok, as long as you recognize that you are disagreeing with Dr. Kim and the taekwondo pioneers, who were the ones who gave President Samaranch that 10th Dan. Which I guess is the point hopefully is getting through from all these posts, which is: More and more we see juniors, instead of taking the time to understand what their seniors did and why they did it, choose instead to ignore that and substitute their own opinions on whatever subject, based on their own limited personal experience.

Sure, I'll disagree with Dr. Kim.

Not saying that what the man did wasn't important, but I reitterate that each and every person who has taken the time to study and learn the art and to then transmit it to others has done more.

Daniel

 

[RobinTKD]

Are there?




Does President Samaranch receiving a Kukkiwon 10th Dan make him some sort of TKD god? And what does the fact that he is European have anything to do with it?

Of course there is! firstly every person who developed the art did more for Taekwondo by actually creating it, regardless of what you believe about its history it was people like Gen. Choi etc who fought for it to be named Taekwondo and be classed as a separate art from Tae Soo Do, they did more for the art. In terms of sport, then I'd maybe agree that, besides Kim himself very few have done more for the sport.

i didn't mean to bring up that he was European in that way, I'm English myself, i just meant that he comes from a country with no history of martial arts.

 

[bluewaveschool]

Ok, then in your opinion, who did more than President Samaranch? Because again, that isn't my opinion, it is Dr. Kim's opinion as well as the opinion of the Taekwondo pioneers. Again, your disagreement isn't with me, it is with them. I'm just the messenger.

Besides Dr. Kim, names. Because from where I'm standing, you seem to keep hiding behind the 'pioneers of TKD' as a shield for your opinions.

 

[miguksaram]

i didn't mean to bring up that he was European in that way, I'm English myself, i just meant that he comes from a country with no history of martial arts.

Are you kidding me or do you have a very 1 demensional view of what martial arts is?

 

[bluewaveschool]

So in your opinion, anyone who has ever taken the time to learn the art and transmit it to others did more for Taekwondo than President Samaranch?

I would agree with that statement.

 

[RobinTKD]

Are you kidding me or do you have a very 1 demensional view of what martial arts is?

Unarmed, potentially lethal, combat? I can tell you now that Italy hasn't practised fighting with short swords and long shields and gladiatorial battles for fun for quite some time. Or would you class fencing as a martial art? Archery?

Do you class sports differently to martial arts?

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

So in your opinion, anyone who has ever taken the time to learn the art and transmit it to others did more for Taekwondo than President Samaranch?

That is what I said. I would not have typed it if it were not my opinion. Without them, there would not be any olympic hopefuls.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Unarmed, potentially lethal, combat? I can tell you now that Italy hasn't practised fighting with short swords and long shields and gladiatorial battles for fun for quite some time. Or would you class fencing as a martial art? Archery?

Do you class sports differently to martial arts?

Well, there is that Itallian school of fencing.

Daniel

 

[miguksaram]

Unarmed, potentially lethal, combat? I can tell you now that Italy hasn't practised fighting with short swords and long shields and gladiatorial battles for fun for quite some time. Or would you class fencing as a martial art? Archery?

Do you class sports differently to martial arts?

First off you statement was "No martial art history". So are you seriously telling me that No country in Europe has ever practiced martial arts in their history?

Secondly, I would beg to differ that there are small groups and organizations in Italy that still practice sword fighting. They are not as popular as say Asian martial arts, but to say Europe has no martial art history is wrong.

Yes, I classify archery and fencing as martial arts. Yes I classify sports and martial arts differently. I don't believe baseball was derived from ancient fighting system. Now if you are asking if sport martial arts is different than martial arts...no I do not classify them differently. Sport aspects are still part of martail arts.

 

[RobinTKD]

First off you statement was "No martial art history". So are you seriously telling me that No country in Europe has ever practiced martial arts in their history?

Please name a French martial art, or a Swedish? OK Russia has systema, but that really is it.

Secondly, I would beg to differ that there are small groups and organizations in Italy that still practice sword fighting. They are not as popular as say Asian martial arts, but to say Europe has no martial art history is wrong.

But then we differ on opinion, just practising sword fighting isn't a martial art to me. I've always felt it has more to do with addressing the balance between body and mind, by training the body to become strong, we become strong intellectually and ethically, I don't believe that these ideals are practised in things such as fencing, or short sword fighting.

Yes, I classify archery and fencing as martial arts. Yes I classify sports and martial arts differently. I don't believe baseball was derived from ancient fighting system. Now if you are asking if sport martial arts is different than martial arts...no I do not classify them differently. Sport aspects are still part of martail arts.

OK, so lets agree to disagree, again I don't believe that they are martial arts, and I do see a difference between sport martial art and 'traditional' martial arts, mainly because I've trained in both and felt the difference myself. When being trained in sport Judo, there was no emphasis on respect for your opponent, no tenets to follow outside the class about self control and courtesy, you were encouraged to fight outside if only for practice. In the end I gave it up to learn Taekwondo, where we are taught these things, and yes we spar, but not to train for a sport but to practice technique. We are not really taught anything about sport Taekwondo.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Please name a French martial art, or a Swedish? OK Russia has systema, but that really is it.

Savatte, Escrime, Lacanne, parkour if you count that.

But then we differ on opinion, just practising sword fighting isn't a martial art to me. I've always felt it has more to do with addressing the balance between body and mind, by training the body to become strong, we become strong intellectually and ethically, I don't believe that these ideals are practised in things such as fencing, or short sword fighting.

The term, martial arts, is a western term used to describe the sciences of waging war. Sword fighting is most certainly martial.

OK, so lets agree to disagree, again I don't believe that they are martial arts, and I do see a difference between sport martial art and 'traditional' martial arts, mainly because I've trained in both and felt the difference myself. When being trained in sport Judo, there was no emphasis on respect for your opponent, no tenets to follow outside the class about self control and courtesy, you were encouraged to fight outside if only for practice. In the end I gave it up to learn Taekwondo, where we are taught these things, and yes we spar, but not to train for a sport but to practice technique. We are not really taught anything about sport Taekwondo.

I do agree that there is a difference between the sportive aspects of an MA and the other aspects.

Daniel

 

[jks9199]

French: Savate as well as la cane.

Define "martial art." Every ethnicity has found some way to pass along successful fighting and combative approaches. Western boxing is as much a martial art as Chinese Boxing. Fencing with an epee is as much a martial art as kendo or iado. Greco-Roman wrestling is as much a martial art as Brazillian Jiu Jitsu.

Or show me why they aren't.

If you're suggesting that it only counts as a martial art if there is some overall moral issue -- then you're limiting yourself to only a part of the arts. (There's a reason I like the term martial sciences more than martial arts...)

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Sweedish martail arts:

 

[d1jinx]

He didn't do anything for the art of TKD, just for the sport.

Ok this I dont agree with because 1 has an effect on the other. Since 1988 and TKD debuting in the olympics, More TKD school have popped up and advertised using the Olympic dream/free advertisement. In turn, more schools ment more TKD people. Not every person who walked into a school wanted to go to the olympics. But the ease and availability of a TKD school who popped up trying to cash in on the Olympic dream had an adverse effect on the number of people who began to study TKD.

So whether it was for sport or not, Art or not, the Olympics pushed More TKD schools into society which attracted more individuals to take TKD rather than Karate or Kung Fu.

Much like the Kung Fu craze hit when Bruce Lee came out and the Ninja Craze popped up Ninja schools....

How ever they (ART-Sport) are today cannot take away from the fact that TKD introduced INTO the OLYMPICS in 1988 cause a HUGE growth Spurt of WORLDWIDE TAEKWONDO Practitioners.

 

[miguksaram]

Please name a French martial art, or a Swedish? OK Russia has systema, but that really is it.

French = Savate. Sweds = I believe Stav.

But then we differ on opinion, just practising sword fighting isn't a martial art to me.

So those who do kendo are not practicing martial arts?

I've always felt it has more to do with addressing the balance between body and mind, by training the body to become strong, we become strong intellectually and ethically, I don't believe that these ideals are practised in things such as fencing, or short sword fighting.

Then you have a lot to learn about sword fighting.

OK, so lets agree to disagree, again I don't believe that they are martial arts

Then you need to broaden your view of martial arts outside of the Asian realm. Pretty much every country has had some form of military fighting system. They may be as simple as point and shoot, but it is still a system of fighting. Plus...go tell a Korean that Gungdo is not a martial art...you will soon learn how they view your opinoin.

I do see a difference between sport martial art and 'traditional' martial arts, mainly because I've trained in both and felt the difference myself. When being trained in sport Judo, there was no emphasis on respect for your opponent, no tenets to follow outside the class about self control and courtesy, you were encouraged to fight outside if only for practice.

Then you were not taught judo properly or at the very least you were not taught the full system of Judo. Sounds more like the Cobra Kai version.

In the end I gave it up to learn Taekwondo, where we are taught these things, and yes we spar, but not to train for a sport but to practice technique. We are not really taught anything about sport Taekwondo.

I have practiced, and still practice, for the sport aspect along with all other aspects of martial arts. The base is the same the only difference are the set of rules of which you practice with.