A question and a response that puzzled me

[granfire]

Too bad we have to go and ruin it. We'd save ourselves a ton of headache by simply keeping it at student/teacher.

Daniel

You will always have your Senpai plus your teacher had a teacher....

 

[Touch Of Death]

I think that it depends upon the context of what they are saying. A colored belt's opinion of material past first dan is conjecture, speculation, and hearsay; they are not in a position to know the answers.

Sometimes, knowing the other person's rank is a quick way to get some idea as to where the other person may be coming from without asking a ton of other questions. If I know that you are seventeen and third dan, that tells me that your perspective is going to be very different than that of a twenty five year old of the same rank. Doesn't make his or her opinion less valid, but it does allow me to answer them knowing that they will be looking at things from a very different angle than I might be.

Daniel

It helps you discriminate, but the person you are talking to may just want your opinion without the discrimination part.
Sean

 

[dancingalone]

I think that it depends upon the context of what they are saying. A colored belt's opinion of material past first dan is conjecture, speculation, and hearsay; they are not in a position to know the answers.

Sometimes, knowing the other person's rank is a quick way to get some idea as to where the other person may be coming from without asking a ton of other questions. If I know that you are seventeen and third dan, that tells me that your perspective is going to be very different than that of a twenty five year old of the same rank. Doesn't make his or her opinion less valid, but it does allow me to answer them knowing that they will be looking at things from a very different angle than I might be.

Very true.

On a side note, I'm glad to have puunui here and adding his input. I'll definitely contribute a buck or two towards a flame-retardant suit for him if he stays around.

 

[granfire]

On a side note, I'm glad to have puunui here and adding his input. I'll definitely contribute a buck or two towards a flame-retardant suit for him if he stays around.

around here? nevah! We don't do that flame thing!

 

[dancingalone]

around here? nevah! We don't do that flame thing!

:jediduel:



It's healthy (and informative) to have people of all ages and experiences participating. I have enjoyed most of puunui's posts so far even if I haven't necessarily agreed with them myself. He gives a certain insight that we've been lacking until now. That and he's refreshingly blunt.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

It helps you discriminate, but the person you are talking to may just want your opinion without the discrimination part.
Sean

Indeed and agreed.

Asking is not something that I would generally do, and usually, if the person is engaged and made to feel comfortable, rank and such will usually come out in general conversation.

Daniel

 

[miguksaram]

At our 1st dan black belt test we are required to memorize all of our seniors's current rank. Outside of that it is never brought up at the school at all, unless someone gets promoted. As for students I rarely, if ever, get asked about my rank or any other ranks of the instructors. The biggest question I get asked that is close to it is how long have I been training or how long have I been at the school. Every now and then someone may ask me what Sensei Sharkey's rank is (our instructor).

 

[puunui]

I have enjoyed most of puunui's posts so far even if I haven't necessarily agreed with them myself. He gives a certain insight that we've been lacking until now. That and he's refreshingly blunt.

Thanks. In the past I was actually much more forceful because I was fighting for the survival of the USTU. There were all kinds of people coming out of the woodwork to flame me, mainly I think because I do have a certain perspective that is difficult to respond to in a factual way, if you disagree with my perspective. Now that the USTU is dead, with no hope of being resurrected, then the goal is different for me. Now I just write to hopefully make people think and for them to not forget what the pioneers sacrificed and accomplished through teamwork and cooperation, something that seems to be completely lacking in the world of Taekwondo today. everywhere you look, it's every man for themselves.

To use a Star Wars analogy, ten fifteen years ago, we were deep in the midst of episodes one through three. 2004 was the end of episode three for both the USAT and WTF, when the leadership of both organizations changed hands for the worse. Now we are in the limbo between episodes three and four, and I feel like Obi Wan talking about the old Republic and the Jedi like they were a myth or fable, something that is hard for some to understand, even though what happened wasn't that long ago.

 

[d1jinx]

Where did you get your information from? Because according to the Kukkiwon, as of October 1997, there were 55 7th Dan, 21 8th Dan and 15 9th Dan certified by the Kukkiwon in the United States. I have the names of all of them too, so if you wish to post a list, I can tell you what their Kukkiwon rank is as of October 1997, if they were Kukkiwon 6th Dan or higher at that time.

I wonder why they haven't updated that list recently? Its been 13 years. with technology making the counting easier.... why not update it. It would be a bit interesting to see the numbers and how they have changed since then.

but then again, how could they keep it accurate... I mean, who is still with us and who aint. It would really matter to say there are 100 9th DANS in the USA and only 6 alive ( i know greatly exagerated the number but still you get the point)

 

[d1jinx]

Terry, by this thread, were you referring to the supreme master texkwondo? I noticed he hasn't corrected anyone lately!

did you make him mad and leave?

 

[puunui]

I wonder why they haven't updated that list recently? Its been 13 years. with technology making the counting easier.... why not update it. It would be a bit interesting to see the numbers and how they have changed since then.

The information I have comes from the Kukkiwon's 25th Anniversary Album, which was published at the direction of Dr. Kim. It wasn't for sale but was given away for free by the Kukkiwon. the 40th anniverary is coming up soon in 2012, perhaps they will put that information in that one, if they publish it. Mine were given to me by Dr. Kim's personal secretary, who still works at the Kukkiwon international department. There is all kinds of turmoil at the Kukkiwon under the new president, to the point where I don't know how much longer he will be there, and because of that, it is very hard for the Kukkiwon staff to make long range plans.

 

[d1jinx]

The information I have comes from the Kukkiwon's 25th Anniversary Album, which was published at the direction of Dr. Kim. It wasn't for sale but was given away for free by the Kukkiwon. the 40th anniverary is coming up soon in 2012, perhaps they will put that information in that one, if they publish it. Mine were given to me by Dr. Kim's personal secretary, who still works at the Kukkiwon international department. There is all kinds of turmoil at the Kukkiwon under the new president, to the point where I don't know how much longer he will be there, and because of that, it is very hard for the Kukkiwon staff to make long range plans.

I remember seeing a book that was published with thosenumbers around 97. It was also listed on thier web page for a while, but is no longer there.

It is quite depressing to know the turmoil still continues... It seems like we have been waiting for this mess to end for Too long now.

 

[terryl965]

Where did you get your information from? Because according to the Kukkiwon, as of October 1997, there were 55 7th Dan, 21 8th Dan and 15 9th Dan certified by the Kukkiwon in the United States. I have the names of all of them too, so if you wish to post a list, I can tell you what their Kukkiwon rank is as of October 1997, if they were Kukkiwon 6th Dan or higher at that time.

Well just here in the DFW area you have GM Kurban, GM Won Chik Parks, GM Chang Lee, GM Garcia, GM Chaviz, GM Parks Mesquite, GM Sun Lee, GM Yim. This is just a few whether they are or not they are here, heck at GM Won Parks tournaments this past October he had twenty five GM all sitting at the long table in front of him. I really do not need you to look them up my point is they all say they are, some of these I know are for sure some I do not. I know I have the KKW manuel and see what numbers they say are factual so I really do not believe the 100 number but man it sure does seem like it.

 

[puunui]

I know I have the KKW manuel and see what numbers they say are factual so I really do not believe the 100 number but man it sure does seem like it.

Which Kukkiwon Manual do you have which shows what numbers?

 

[puunui]

Here is an old post I wrote for tkd net:

The following is a list of 9th Dan practitioners that the Kukkiwon
promoted from 1972-1997. The first Kukkiwon 9th Dans were
promoted in 1975. I tried to group them by Kwans off the top of
my head. There is a big group of 9th Dans at the bottom of the list
which have unidentified Kwan lineage. I also tried to list the country
of residence for as many as I could identify, again off the top of my
head. If there is no country listed, then either I don't know what
country they are living in, or they are living in Korea.

If you know the Kwan or country of residence of these practitioners,
please let me know.

*

Chung Do Kwan: UHM Woon Kyu (3rd Kwan Jang), KIM Bong
Sik, LEE Tae Sung, LEE Yoo Sun (USA), PARK Hae Man,

Song Moo Kwan: LEE Young Sup (2nd Kwan Jang), CHOI Dong
Hee (USA-OH), KIM Yong Kil (USA-CA), KIM Il Joo (USA-OH),

Moo Duk Kwan: HONG Chong Soo (2nd Kwan Jang), AHN
Kyong Won (USA-OH), CHOI Byung Ho (USA-FL), CHUN In
Moon (USA-NY), CHUNG Sun Hwan (USA-MI), KANG Myung
Kyu (USA-CA), KIM Bong Ki, KIM In Suk, KIM Jae Joon (USA-
FL), KIM Sang Soo (USA-NJ), KIM Young Chi (USA-GA), LEE
Moo Yong (USA-CA), MIN Kyung Ho (USA-CA),

Jidokwan: LEE Chong Woo (3rd Kwan Jang), LEE Byung Ro
(10th Dan), AN Dae Sup (USA-TX), BAE Young Ki, CHOI Tae
Hong (USA-OR), CHUN Il Sup, CHUNG Jin Yong, KIM Koang
Woong (USA-WI), KIM Young Tae, KO Eui Min (GER), LEE
Sung Soo (AUS), PARK Dong Gun (USA-NY), PARK Won Jick
(USA-TX), SUH Joong Keun (USA-FL),

Chang Moo Kwan: LEE Nam Suk (2nd Kwan Jang; USA-CA),
KIM Soon Bae (3rd Kwan Jang), KIM Dae Shik (USA-TX),
KIM Ho Jae, KIM Sun Ku, KWON Duk Gun (USA-IL), LIM
Chang Soo (USA-MI), PARK Jung Hwan (USA-FL),

Oh Do Kwan: HYUN Jong Myung (2nd Kwan Jang), BAEK Joon
Ki (3rd kwan Jang), KANG Chang Jin (USA-CA), KIM Byung
Woon, KIM Sung Joo, LEE Eui Bin (USA-CA),

Jung Do Kwan: LEE Young Woo (2nd Kwan Jang),

Han Moo Kwan: LEE Kyo Yoon (1st Kwan Jang),

Kang Duk Won: HONG Jong Pyo (1st Kwan Jang), LEE Kum
Hong (3rd Kwan Jang/WTF Secretary General), CHONG Hwa
(USA-MI),

*

Unidentified Kwan:

AN Jong Woong, BAE Sung Sil, BAE Won Keun (USA-NJ),
BAEK Gyu In, BAEK Woon Dae, BYUN Jin Suk, CHANG Tae
Rang (USA-NY), CHANG Young Jun (USA-NY), CHUN Jae
Kyu, CHUN Young Ho, CHUNG Ik Jin, HAN Choon Kyo (USA-
CA), HONG Sung In, HWANG Choon Sung, HWANG Koang
Chul, HWANG Man Nyun, JANG Jin Il, JANG Ki Seung, JO
Jeung Duk, JO Jum Sun, JO Young Dae, JO Young Re, KANG
Hong Soon, KANG Jung Ku, KANG Young Bok, KIM Jong Ok,
KIM Ju Hun (USA-NC), KIM Jung Kwan, KIM Ki Dong, KIM
Kwang Il, KIM Myung Soo, KIM Nam Suk, KIM Sa Ok, KIM
Sun, KIM Yong Ho, KIM Yong Suh, KO Kuk Hwan, KONG
Kyung Wook, KWON Young Moon (USA), LEE Choon Bong,
LEE Jong Soo, LEE Jung Nam (NZ), LEE Kyong Myong, LEE
Kyung Duek, LEE Pyung Pil, LEE Seung Hak, LEE Woon Se
(USA-MD), LEE Young Keun (USA-CA), LIM Soon Ho, NO
Won Sik, PARK Bu Chul, PARK Byung Chul, PARK Dae Jin,
PARK Hee Won, PARK Myung Soo, PARK Re Soon, PARK
Sung Hong (USA-DE), PARK Woong Young, SEO Myung Soo,
SHIN Dong Kyu, SONG Bong Sup, SONG Sang Kuen, SUH
Chun Suk, SUH Yoon Nam, SUH Yung Sun, SUNG Baek Kyu,
YE Jo Hae, YOO Mok, YOO Young Jae, YOON Woong Yul,
Solomon Yun (USA-WA)

 

[d1jinx]

Here is an old post I wrote for tkd net:

The following is a list of 9th Dan practitioners that the Kukkiwon
promoted from 1972-1997. The first Kukkiwon 9th Dans were
promoted in 1975. I tried to group them by Kwans off the top of
my head. There is a big group of 9th Dans at the bottom of the list
which have unidentified Kwan lineage. I also tried to list the country
of residence for as many as I could identify, again off the top of my
head. If there is no country listed, then either I don't know what
country they are living in, or they are living in Korea.

It would be interesting to see a recent list (if ever published) and if any Americans are on it....

 

[puunui]

It would be interesting to see a recent list (if ever published) and if any Americans are on it....

There are two non-korean Kukkiwon 9th Dan in the United States: GM Ed Sell in Florida and GM Tom Vo in California. There are a few 8th Dan that I know of and more and more 7th Dan. But it still is a pretty small club when you are in that range of ranks.

 

[d1jinx]

There are two non-korean Kukkiwon 9th Dan in the United States: GM Ed Sell in Florida and GM Tom Vo in California. There are a few 8th Dan that I know of and more and more 7th Dan. But it still is a pretty small club when you are in that range of ranks.

And over time, if the KKW survives the latest drama, I suspect there will be MANY more Americans!

thanks

 

[ralphmcpherson]

There are two non-korean Kukkiwon 9th Dan in the United States: GM Ed Sell in Florida and GM Tom Vo in California. There are a few 8th Dan that I know of and more and more 7th Dan. But it still is a pretty small club when you are in that range of ranks.

Out of curiosity, are there any australian kukki 9th dans? Our GM is 9th dan but obviously not with the kukkiwon.

 

[terryl965]

Which Kukkiwon Manual do you have which shows what numbers?

The KKW Encyedepia