A question about Drunken Kung Fu...

[Jesse]

I don't know if its just me, but does anyone else find drunken kung fu to be rather sloppy?
I mean I understand that a master at this art can move in un-natural movements but I just figured that if someone was seriously hit by using this art that there is no real quick way to block or protect yourself.

I'm speaking totally out of what I've seen in chackie jan movies and tv shows. I know this is definately not a good way to do my research but I have never seen this type of art in person and was wondering how effective it really is.

 

[charyuop]

If you look at the forms they look pretty "balanced" and powerful providing also a good defense

Though in real fighting I don't know. Here they try to show drunken kung fu Vs karateka and IMHO they get a big beat up

 

[Jesse]

If you look at the forms they look pretty "balanced" and powerful providing also a good defense

Though in real fighting I don't know. Here they try to show drunken kung fu Vs karateka and IMHO they get a big beat up

Ya thats what I thought, both of these clips show the drunken kung fu guys spending more time trying to move drunk then actually looking for the strick. Whereas with the karate video he's straight to the point and looking for the points.
So far drunken kung fu isn't looking too good.

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

I've seen practitioners of drunken forms and, while appearing ungainly, they seem to have a good deal of power. I don't see how they can be used exclusively, however. Perhaps, more of a surprise attack would suit the style better.

I am reminded of a quote from Jui Kuen II:
"You cannot win fight that way. Drunken Master just for show!"

 

[crushing]

Ya thats what I thought, both of these clips show the drunken kung fu guys spending more time trying to move drunk then actually looking for the strick. Whereas with the karate video he's straight to the point and looking for the points.
So far drunken kung fu isn't looking too good.

I can't access the videos from where I am right now, but it sounds like from the posts that this may have been a match where the karateka person knows the drunken fighter is likely not really drunk and is actually trained in the MA. It seems to me that this knowledge, knowledge someone in a street situation may not have, would make the drunken art less effective as the deception is lost.

Having said that, my disclaimer is that my only drunken art 'experience' is also watching Jackie Chan and a previous discussion I lurked here on MartialTalk.

 

[Jade Tigress]

Actually, drunken styles are considered natural and not un-natural. Moving naturally is much harder than you'd think. It is also very effective when perfected. It is supposed to give the illusion of being out of control and not effective. The drunken styles I have seen on video always look too choreographed to me. My former Sifu knew drunken kung fu and I have seen him demonstrate it very effectively. I've tried it myself and...no way. It's very difficult to do without becoming mechanical, yet it's most effective that way.

Edited to add...the clips looked pretty good IMO. The first one, with the exception of the kicking and doing a form appearance, had a pretty natural looking movement otherwise. The second one was moving more naturally than others I've seen too. I think he is just less experienced in the style, needs more time and training to perfect but is on the right track.

 

[shesulsa]

Note:

Moved to Chinese Martial Arts - General.

G Ketchmark / shesulsa
Asst. Admin.

 

[Andrew Green]

So far drunken kung fu isn't looking too good.

Nah, it looks great. Drunken Master was a great movie.


Effectiveness when put in fron of another fighter is where the difficulty comes

 

[Jade Tigress]

Effectiveness when put in fron of another fighter is where the difficulty comes

Exactly. It's a very difficult thing to become really skilled at, but if you do become really skilled at it, if you can learn to move naturally, etc. it becomes highly effective. I don't think many people are able to truly capture the essence of drunken kung fu and be really effective, that's not to say it can't be done.

 

[Andrew Green]

Exactly. It's a very difficult thing to become really skilled at, but if you do become really skilled at it, if you can learn to move naturally, etc. it becomes highly effective. I don't think many people are able to truly capture the essence of drunken kung fu and be really effective, that's not to say it can't be done.

This logic never worked for me, as to be honest, I've never seen anyone that could use this effectively, just rumors that "oh yes, it's possible."

And if I found someone who was effective, I think my first question thought would be, wow, if this guy studied a combative art he'd be scary...

Drunken Kung fu is great IMO, Wushu as a whole it. It takes great athleticism and is very fun too watch, but I can't see it being anyones best option if they are looking for practicality.

 

[Jesse]

Ohh don't get me wrong I think the art is awsome and it takes a very skilled individual to learn it well. Because of the drunken "act" this art could be even harder to master then other MA.
My question thou originally was is this art that effective? I guess a person is looking for certain points of the body to target, but unlike a closed fist, does the holding the cup fist (sorry don't know what to call it) have the same effect?

Its one thing to see it planned out with actors whereas on the streets how effective is it really?

 

[HG1]

Drunken movments have their place but are no more or less effective than 'sober' techniques :drink2tha. The drunken section in our forms is to further develop the body & train sinking. Applied in fighting, movements are steamlined with quite a bit of the drunkeness removed. It's an additional method integrated into existing fighting skills. I think people tend to get lost in the aura of mysticism surrounding the esoteric aspects of Kung Fu.

 

[clfsean]

That video clip from Japan is crap. The "drunken guys" got owned as they should've. It wasn't zui quan or joy kuen... no matter the dialect. It looked like they'd watched too many movies or played to many video games. They had absolutely no concept of of CMA at all except for what they thought it should "look" like.

The "sifu" that taught them should've gotten out on the floor & taken his *** whipping with his pigeons as well.

 

[HG1]

That video clip from Japan is crap. The "drunken guys" got owned as they should've. It wasn't zui quan or joy kuen... no matter the dialect. It looked like they'd watched too many movies or played to many video games. They had absolutely no concept of of CMA at all except for what they thought it should "look" like.

The "sifu" that taught them should've gotten out on the floor & taken his *** whipping with his pigeons as well.

Well said. No demonstration even the basics of fighting skill. If they are a TCMA school they should be ashamed of such a poor display.

 

[Touch Of Death]

That video clip from Japan is crap. The "drunken guys" got owned as they should've. It wasn't zui quan or joy kuen... no matter the dialect. It looked like they'd watched too many movies or played to many video games. They had absolutely no concept of of CMA at all except for what they thought it should "look" like.

The "sifu" that taught them should've gotten out on the floor & taken his *** whipping with his pigeons as well.

The rules of sparring did not favor the drunken stylists, but drunken concepts can be very effective.
Sean

 

[7starmantis]

That video clip from Japan is crap. The "drunken guys" got owned as they should've. It wasn't zui quan or joy kuen... no matter the dialect. It looked like they'd watched too many movies or played to many video games. They had absolutely no concept of of CMA at all except for what they thought it should "look" like.

The "sifu" that taught them should've gotten out on the floor & taken his *** whipping with his pigeons as well.

I agree. They lacked the most basic of CMA principles and applied their fighting according to how they wanted to look, not according to what was being presented to them. They stayed so far out as well, I kept saying "why dont they move in", especially as they got kicked in the face. They lacked nay real intent in my opinion, something that is rarely taught or understood in today's CMA teachings.

Drunken kung fu is so misunderstodd to be some act of drunkeness and the importance is placed on the trick of looking drunk that the true methods and principles behind it are ignored or forgotten. First, it is extremely effective if true understanding is had. The extremely close quarters and continuous moving of the opponents center alone is enough to shut down most attacks. Think about it, an attacker who is off balance cannot attack. If you can keep your "opponent" off balance, how will he beat you?

7sm

 

[clfsean]

The rules of sparring did not favor the drunken stylists, but drunken concepts can be very effective.
Sean

True but then again the rules of sparring shouldn't matter when it comes the basics of CMA. A good solid person trained in CMA can adjust to whatever rules are presented to spar with. But what's even more amazing is that ANYBODY can with good basics.

Had those guys walked into a Wing Chun School, CLF School, Bak Sil Lum School, etc... they would've been pounded the same, except by CMA players instead of JMA players.

It was a shining example of sheeple & buying what you believe it is, as opposed to actually finding out first. They got off much better than they could have.

 

[TenTigers]

Joi Bot Sien is not at all how it is portrayed in the movies, and certainly not what those guys were doing. The wu-shu is a mere imitation of the outward appearance of the techniques.
Picture the resiliency and evasiveness of Tai Chi,(like a snake) cruel, viscious strikes to vital points, and bone breaking jointlocks. Body slamming throws ending in Ground n Pound techniques. This is Drunken Fist. That other stuff? Fantasy Island.

 

[mikeXedge]

I train with a guy named Master Jeff Rose... he is a sixth degree under grandmaster sinkwangthe... jeffs specialty is drunken fist... i have only ever sparred him using sticky hands (pushy hands)... i would not dare say i am at his level... but i've been doing martial arts my whole life... so i'm alright... but when he starts using the drunken fist system he is untouchable... so far i've only personally learned three steps of drunken fist in the second road of the shaolin monkey... my understanding is that it is a very internal style... many of the strikes look weak... but the point of the style is to be deceptive... and it being an internal style you shouldn't need alot of force to do damage...