A punch should be followed by a pull

[Gerry Seymour]

For me I just assume the worst

This is what takes away a lot is what you could contribute to discussions.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

For me I just assume the worst .

The day when you find out that your best technique no longer work, it may be the time for you to declare retirement from competition.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I think we are misunderstanding what kempodisciple is meaning. (and I may be here as well... so correct me if I get this wrong) When I read his comments about having confidence in a technique or trust in one technique over the other, I think about it this way. The bad/opponent/other guy... is going to give you one free shot, before he attacks you. Most strikers would probably throw a cross, maybe a hook. If you can kick, maybe its a round house to the head. The idea is that this is the technique you have most confidence in or the most trust in. Its not that the others are bad, or don't work or you can't apply it... its the I have one free shot to land... which technique is my go to? Not many strikers (except maybe Bruce Lee) would go with a jab as their free shot. A wrestler might suplex the guy for his free shot.

That's sort of what I've been trying to say. I think everyone is just getting thrown off by my use of the words trust/confidence for some reason. If you get in a fight, you want to use whatever you are most confident in. If I'm most confident in my hook punch, I'm not going to try to turn my hook punch into a grab. If I'm more confident in my hikikomi-gaeshi, and subsequent ground skills, then I will throw a punch with the goal of grabbing somewhere that I can do my throw.

That doesn't mean that I'm not confident in my ability to throw, or takedown, or grapple. But I'm not going to purposefully go to my weak area when I can stay in my strong area.

 

[skribs]

You learn

- boxing for punch,
- TKD for kick,
- Judo for throw,
- BJJ for ground skill,

with good reason.

We all know that a rich wife may not know how to cook.

Maybe at the beginner level. But at the advanced level, if the TKD master knows how to punch, throw, and groundfight, then why not learn from him?

If we are going to critique a technique knowing if it works or not is important.

I catch punches out of thin air all the time. (But it is in the kids class)

I can't catch punches out of thin air. (But it is against k1 champions.)

We don't know. So we really can't decide if what you say is relevant. For me I just assume the worst and think you spar against duds. But you may not. You may have some punch catching skill.

I know the quality of people I'm fighting, but you'll just say that their quality is also anecdotal, and if the techniques I claim work on them work on them, it must be because they're bad and not because the technique works. So why even bother arguing?

Honestly, I was real close to putting you on ignore after the last thread like this, but you gave me some really good advice in another thread. I'd rather not argue with you again about it.

 

[skribs]

That's sort of what I've been trying to say. I think everyone is just getting thrown off by my use of the words trust/confidence for some reason. If you get in a fight, you want to use whatever you are most confident in. If I'm most confident in my hook punch, I'm not going to try to turn my hook punch into a grab. If I'm more confident in my hikikomi-gaeshi, and subsequent ground skills, then I will throw a punch with the goal of grabbing somewhere that I can do my throw.

That doesn't mean that I'm not confident in my ability to throw, or takedown, or grapple. But I'm not going to purposefully go to my weak area when I can stay in my strong area.

I'd suggest changing your word choice on this one, then.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I'd suggest changing your word choice on this one, then.

I've tried saying the same thing with different words like 10 times on this thread lol

 

[skribs]

I've tried saying the same thing with different words like 10 times on this thread lol

I've seen you use the word "confidence" in pretty much every post.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I've seen you use the word "confidence" in pretty much every post.

Thats the word that describes it though. It is an issue of what moves you're most confident in.

 

[skribs]

Thats the word that describes it though. It is an issue of what moves you're most confident in.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Maybe at the beginner level. But at the advanced level, if the TKD master knows how to punch, throw, and groundfight, then why not learn from him?

Will you agree with me if I make the following statement (You can replace X with TKD, boxing, Judo, BJJ, …)?

"At the advanced level, the X style master knows how to punch, throw, and groundfight."

Of course with "cross training", this can be done. But without "cross training", I just don't see how this can be possible.

 

[skribs]

Will you agree with me if I make the following statement (You can replace X with TKD, boxing, Judo, BJJ, …)?

"At the advanced level, the X style master knows how to punch, throw, and groundfight."

Of course with "cross training", this can be done. But without "cross training", I just don't see how this can be possible.

I will disagree. Because arts don't exist in a vacuum.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The day when you find out that your best technique no longer work, it may be the time for you to declare retirement from competition.

Not really, it just means that people have caught on to your best technique. Change it up with the second best technique and things have a chance of improving. It's only a problem when your best technique is the "only technique".

If that's the case then either expand your abilities or quit competition.

 

[drop bear]

This is what takes away a lot is what you could contribute to discussions.

Alternatively engaging in fantasy sold as real also takes away from a discussion.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I've seen you use the word "confidence" in pretty much every post.

I think this sums up the difference in what @kempodisciple and I were saying, using the word "trust", with the same difference as is being discussed now with "confidence":

But yeah, I get your point. I think we have a semantic difference over “trust”. I trust it to do what I expect, but not to finish that situation. I’m thinking about the former, you’re thinking about the latter.

So, he was saying something I can agree with, but I was reading it as something I didn't agree with. I think the same thing's happening in your part of the discussion.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Will you agree with me if I make the following statement (You can replace X with TKD, boxing, Judo, BJJ, …)?

"At the advanced level, the X style master knows how to punch, throw, and groundfight."

Of course with "cross training", this can be done. But without "cross training", I just don't see how this can be possible.

You're assuming the art in question can only contain whatever you've identified as the stereotypical part of it. If someone can teach good ground grappling, does it really matter what they call their art or what else it contains? Not really, I can still learn good ground grappling from them.

Just because TKD isn't known for its punches (perception and generalization), that doesn't mean there aren't folks who have good punches in the TKD they teach. If their students learn those good punches in TKD, then those punches are part of TKD, and not cross-training. Whether that instuctor got them from cross training or originally learned them in TKD isn't really relevant, because they are in his TKD when he teaches it (and will probably be in his students' TKD when they teach it).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Alternatively engaging in fantasy sold as real also takes away from a discussion.

Yeah. You toss that in from time to time. Typically without any evidence of it being so. You simply assume it is so, because - as you said earlier - that's what you do.

 

[drop bear]

Yeah. You toss that in from time to time. Typically without any evidence of it being so. You simply assume it is so, because - as you said earlier - that's what you do.

Martial arts logic at its finest.

My master can beat anyone.

I don't believe you. Do you have proof?

Do you have proof he can't? So therefore he can beat anyone.

 

[drop bear]

You're assuming the art in question can only contain whatever you've identified as the stereotypical part of it. If someone can teach good ground grappling, does it really matter what they call their art or what else it contains? Not really, I can still learn good ground grappling from them.

Just because TKD isn't known for its punches (perception and generalization), that doesn't mean there aren't folks who have good punches in the TKD they teach. If their students learn those good punches in TKD, then those punches are part of TKD, and not cross-training. Whether that instuctor got them from cross training or originally learned them in TKD isn't really relevant, because they are in his TKD when he teaches it (and will probably be in his students' TKD when they teach it).

If you do something better than the stereotype then it would be to your advantage to separate yourself from that stereotype.

It happens with MMA a lot. As there are a lot of stereotypes surrounding it. All you need to do is say show a video or put up a link and show that you are different.

 

[skribs]

If you do something better than the stereotype then it would be to your advantage to separate yourself from that stereotype.

It happens with MMA a lot. As there are a lot of stereotypes surrounding it. All you need to do is say show a video or put up a link and show that you are different.

I'm not going to be governed by a stereotype. If you believe the stereotype, that's got nothing to do with me.

 

[skribs]

Martial arts logic at its finest.

My master can beat anyone.

I don't believe you. Do you have proof?

Do you have proof he can't? So therefore he can beat anyone.

Ursula, when you're done talking to yourself, can we have our voices back?