A new fundamental question of martial arts

[LeandrodeSouzaCardoso]

Taken from my blog http://chinayinyang.wordpress.com please visit. In one of his books "brazilian jiujitsu theory and techinique", Renzo and Royler Gracie family members proposed a fundamental question to martial arts: how defeat a stronger, bigger, more agressive opponent. In fact the internal martial arts offer a answer to this question: not opposing force against force, yielding and using sensibility to overcome the opponent: imagine you exchanging punches with Mike Tyson, you give him one punch, he gives you one punch, and so on, or you pushing an sumo fighter and the sumo fighter push you back; not a good idea. Every martial art has its way of compensate the lack of strength with speed, footwork, dodges, etc. I propose a new fundamental problem to martial arts: How defeat more then one opponent; having to fight more than one opponent, and this is common; when fighting alone is one of the most difficult problems you could face. And, in this aspect, brazilian jiujitsu offers a poor solution: if you try to take one of the opponents to the ground, the other(or others) will kick your head and other vital points to the death, while you are in a disadvantageous position on the ground and the opponent standing up. Baguazhang is the perfect solution; with it circular movements is possible to attack multiple opponents at the same time and with it circular footsteps and spins, have just a small momentary exposition of flanks(sides) and the rear, that is the most vulnerable points when fighting more than one opponent, and if you know about war, you know how important is to control the flanks and the rear.

 

[Instructor]

Both Aikido and Hapkido solve the multiple attacker problem in a similer way to Baugua. Project the nearest attacker into the the other attackers.

Brazilian JiuJitsu is an amazing art and should not be diminished by this multiple attacker weakness. If a BJJ practitioner expected to face multiple attackers they would likely explore defenses to cope with the situation.

 

[Instructor]

One might make the case that Parkour has the best solution to the multiple attacker problem, simply put miles and obstacles between you and the threat.

 

[Chris Parker]

Honestly, this is hardly a "new" question... the idea of how to defeat a larger, stronger, more aggressive opponent is kinda key to most martial arts. Who trains to beat the smaller, weaker, overly defensive guys?

 

[clfsean]

It's a "yay me" thread...

:feedtroll

 

[Cyriacus]

Honestly, this is hardly a "new" question... the idea of how to defeat a larger, stronger, more aggressive opponent is kinda key to most martial arts. Who trains to beat the smaller, weaker, overly defensive guys?

Pretty much that.

Also, Id like to add that not all street fights are to the death, shockingly enough.

 

[jasonbrinn]

brazilian jiujitsu offers a poor solution

To play devil's advocate, arts like BJJ, Judo and things like Wrestling may offer one of the best solutions to a multiple attacker situation simply due to the fact that they help you learn how to avoid being down on the ground and how to get up safely if you are.


Thank you,

Jason Brinn

 

[Tez3]

To play devil's advocate, arts like BJJ, Judo and things like Wrestling may offer one of the best solutions to a multiple attacker situation simply due to the fact that they help you learn how to avoid being down on the ground and how to get up safely if you are.


Thank you,

Jason Brinn

I think that's a point that''s often overlooked when people say these aren't good for self defence. Everyone says you don't want to go to ground seeing only that part of these styles, which you don't but staying on your feet isn't always easy so defences against being taken down has to be good.

 

[Cyriacus]

I think that's a point that''s often overlooked when people say these aren't good for self defence. Everyone says you don't want to go to ground seeing only that part of these styles, which you don't but staying on your feet isn't always easy so defences against being taken down has to be good.

Additionally, its completely possible for You to be on Your back, with Them on Their feet. I.e., You can get knocked down as well, and 'just stand back up' doesnt always work. Its not a good place to be, but then, by that logic, throwing punches could cause You to hit with Your fingers and break them. Same goes for Palms. And literally any strike ever. But if You do break a finger, You dont immediately surrender to a battering. You seek immiate medical attention afterward, and try and go with the disadvantage at the time. I theorise the same can apply for being on the ground.

 

[Tez3]

Additionally, its completely possible for You to be on Your back, with Them on Their feet. I.e., You can get knocked down as well, and 'just stand back up' doesnt always work. Its not a good place to be, but then, by that logic, throwing punches could cause You to hit with Your fingers and break them. Same goes for Palms. And literally any strike ever. But if You do break a finger, You dont immediately surrender to a battering. You seek immiate medical attention afterward, and try and go with the disadvantage at the time. I theorise the same can apply for being on the ground.

The only martial art that will absolutely work is Nike Do! Well it will if egos don't get in the way, nought wrong with running away, you live to fight another day then!

 

[Cyriacus]

The only martial art that will absolutely work is Nike Do! Well it will if egos don't get in the way, nought wrong with running away, you live to fight another day then!

Unless Youre a friend of mine who had a nice solid object thrown at the back of His head a few years back.

But I dont really doubt that thats an uncommon outcome

 

[Tez3]

Unless Youre a friend of mine who had a nice solid object thrown at the back of His head a few years back.

But I dont really doubt that thats an uncommon outcome

Mmm, ok then just go out with a couple of bodyguards! They don't have to be good, just a distraction while you get away!

 

[Steve]

Additionally, its completely possible for You to be on Your back, with Them on Their feet. I.e., You can get knocked down as well, and 'just stand back up' doesnt always work. Its not a good place to be, but then, by that logic, throwing punches could cause You to hit with Your fingers and break them. Same goes for Palms. And literally any strike ever. But if You do break a finger, You dont immediately surrender to a battering. You seek immiate medical attention afterward, and try and go with the disadvantage at the time. I theorise the same can apply for being on the ground.

We actually drill technical stand up often, ie, how to stand up when your opponent is on his feet and you are not.

 

[Tez3]

We actually drill technical stand up often, ie, how to stand up when your opponent is on his feet and you are not.

We do as well, just because you can do ground work in MMA doesn't mean you always want to or it is wise to.

 

[seasoned]

We actually drill technical stand up often, ie, how to stand up when your opponent is on his feet and you are not.

This goes a long way in preserving teeth. somewhat over looked in some arts. Great point and drill........

 

[lklawson]

Taken from my blog http://chinayinyang.MYSTUPIDBLOG.com please visit. In one of his books "brazilian jiujitsu theory and techinique", Renzo and Royler Gracie family members proposed a fundamental question to martial arts: how defeat a stronger, bigger, more agressive opponent. In fact the internal martial arts offer a answer to this question: not opposing force against force, yielding and using sensibility to overcome the opponent: imagine you exchanging punches with Mike Tyson, you give him one punch, he gives you one punch, and so on, or you pushing an sumo fighter and the sumo fighter push you back; not a good idea. Every martial art has its way of compensate the lack of strength with speed, footwork, dodges, etc. I propose a new fundamental problem to martial arts: How defeat more then one opponent; having to fight more than one opponent, and this is common; when fighting alone is one of the most difficult problems you could face. And, in this aspect, brazilian jiujitsu offers a poor solution: if you try to take one of the opponents to the ground, the other(or others) will kick your head and other vital points to the death, while you are in a disadvantageous position on the ground and the opponent standing up. Baguazhang is the perfect solution; with it circular movements is possible to attack multiple opponents at the same time and with it circular footsteps and spins, have just a small momentary exposition of flanks(sides) and the rear, that is the most vulnerable points when fighting more than one opponent, and if you know about war, you know how important is to control the flanks and the rear.

Simplistic, hackneyed, and designed to drive traffic to your (doubtlessly equally simplistic and hackneyed) competing blog.

People learning to fight want to learn to fight bigger, stronger, better armed, and/or more numerous opponents? Really? Ya don't say.

Trading force-for-force punches with a bigger, stronger, more skilled guy is dumb, huh? It's a shame no martial art before has ever come up with a Push-Pull theory and that Boxing has no conception of evasions.

BJJ (and grappling arts in general) only teach you to lay on the ground where the other guy (and his personal army) will kick you in the head? Where's the expected gay implication and the warnings of teh str33t being chock full of rocks, broken glass, HIV infected needles, and lava?

Hey, 1995 called. It wants its lame arguments back.

 

[K-man]

The only martial art that will absolutely work is Nike Do! Well it will if egos don't get in the way, nought wrong with running away, you live to fight another day then!

Sorry if I seem disrespectful but Nike Do is not the only way. There is also the more "traditional" Ree Bok Do! It's lineage can be traced back even twice as far as ERII's reign.

 

[Carol]

Sorry if I seem disrespectful but Nike Do is not the only way. There is also the more "traditional" Ree Bok Do! It's lineage can be traced back even twice as far as ERII's reign.

Yet modernized by me and brought up to modern standards.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sh...1458275&highlight=Rhee+Bok+Do#post1458275

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Cyriacus]

We actually drill technical stand up often, ie, how to stand up when your opponent is on his feet and you are not.

Which contributes to the various reasons that I actually like BJJ

 

[K-man]

Yet modernized by me and brought up to modern standards.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sh...e&p=1458275&highlight=Rhee+Bok+Do#post1458275

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Damn! It must have been the American spelling that threw me! I presume your's is the newer, faster, version. :asian:

Nah, that's the one I revitalized, I now call it Rhee Bok Do. I teach it along side my favorite Kenpo techniques, Escaping the Thug and Fleeing Chicken.