A Martial Artists Word

[Shotokan Seishin]

Just curious, as martial artists do you hold yourself to higher standards that the “average Joe” when it comes to things such as honoring a promise or keeping your word?

I always find it interesting that many organizations have precepts to be followed such as “perfection of character” and “respect others” or something along those lines, but when it comes down to it these guidelines rarely even cross people’s minds in their day to day routine. I’m not saying this is right or wrong, but it seems somewhat hypocritical to recite such teachings at the end of every class just to go and throw it out the window the minute you leave the dojo. Has honor and respect completely left the art?

I’ve been struggling with a broken agreement I had with my own sensei recently. Am I at fault for holding this persons word to a higher level than I would a regular non-martial art individual? I know a number of people will say “let it go” etc, but my part of our agreement involved a huge time and energy expenditure that has now all gone down the drain. It stings. The time I put into the project will never be recovered, but more importantly my trust in my own sensei to be a person of their word has also been severely damaged.

It just seems that when it comes down to it, people only keep their word when it suits them, and if it becomes a tiny bit inconvenient or they want something different they will break their promise to get what they want. What a shame that a person’s word/promise means nothing anymore. I find it even harder to deal with in that it came from my own sensei who I held in high regard.



Is there any place for honor and respect in the arts anymore?


UC

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I cannot comment on your specific situation, but as a general rule, I find that most MA schools revolve around teaching physical skills and running a business.

Much of the 'character development' comes in the form of mental toughness with regards to pushing one's self to meet physical challenges and in the form of respect and etiquette.

Some schools get into the whole 'philosophy of the art' but I find these to be the exceptions.

I do think that if a sensei, sabeom, sifu, guru, master, or whatever is teaching at a school where 'character and honor' are touted, then by all means, they should be held to a higher standard. It is the same reason that I hold clergy to a higher standard: they have put themselves in a position of telling others how to live. As they set a standard, they place themselves under a greater level of scrutiny.

Same for teachers as well. A teacher in school will happilly be all high and mighty if a student cheats. Thus I would judge that teacher much more harshly for 'cheating' on taxes or in any other area of life.

For what its worth.

Daniel

 

[K-man]

Unfortunately we live in the real world. Hope for honesty and honour, but be prepared for constant disappointment. I have recently left the organisation I started with after 30 years. Our paths were diverging. I was looking to walk away and retain old friendships. what happened to me was similar to a very nasty divorce!

 

[Chris Parker]

Hi,

It's an interesting ideal, honestly, and I would hope that there would be a higher degree of personal integrity in the martial arts than elsewhere, but you also need to keep in mind that martial artists, instructors, highly experienced and life-long exponents of the arts, are, really, just people. And as such they are just as fallible, likely to forget, betray, or just downright be lousy people.

So while it is obviously ideal for a martial arts instructor to be held to a higher standard, realistically I think that the only person you can legitimately hold in such a way is yourself. Be an example to be followed, and with some luck and some hope you will influence the next generation as well. If you think that someone falters, recognise that all it means is that they are human, and make sure to watch for such things in yourself.

Remember, the old stories are just ways of imparting values, rather than necessarily realistic accounts of the ways people were (such as a number of stories in the Hagakure, including one where a samurai is asked to take an oath, which angers and insults him greatly... "I have given my word, and the word of a samurai is like stone! There is no oath that is greater, nor any retribution from a deity greater than the shame of breaking my word, so I shall speak no oath that says my word cannot be taken as unbreakable!" He didn't have to take an oath....). So take from them values that you desire, but realise that for others, they are just stories, and a martial artist is no more virtuous than anyone else... nor are they less.

 

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

This is a hard one but I would hold your Sensei to the agreement or I would leave. Has nothing to do with Martial Arts it has everything to do with being a person of their word.

An old Sensei used to talk about Warriors and Whores and how a Warrior can become a Whore but once a Whore a Warrior can they never again be.

I took that to hart and when he stopped livng what he preached, started dumbing down the classes to only what he was physically able to do himself, started dragging his personal crap onto the mats at the detriment to the group and treating his top black belts like children, we thew Capt. Bly in the lifeboat and took over the Dojo, not a single person wanted to get on the boat with him.

It's too bad because once he was a hellova man and I loved him like family but the group and the mission was more important than any one man. I still love him allthough he hates me like Vader hated Obi Won or Bly hated Christian.

 

[Omar B]

Well coming from a Seido Karate background Zen Buddhism teachings are very much apart of it. Principles of honor, respect, honesty are all part and parcel of it, but it's in no way dogmatic. I'm an atheist, I'm honorable because it's ethical, not because of Sensei saying so.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

We use the term 'rei' to mean 'bow', but it also means 'respect'. "Karate begins and ends with rei." - Gichin Funakoshi.

I meditate on that, and I don't need to think about what others do or don't do, how they behave or don't behave, whether they are trustworthy or not, oathkeepers or oathbreakers. Rei isn't about anybody else, it's only about oneself. Concentrate on your own rei, and use your own best judgment about how to deal with others.

 

[Shifu Steve]

Good question. Yes.

Those that have dedicated themselves to true martial arts (in a philosophical sense) should be held to a higher standard. In my training we have a state called a superior person. This is a place one arrives to from training that indicates a dedication to ethics, discipline and thought. Once you get there you carry a responsibility to act accordingly. It’s a personal journey but one that's driven by extensive training.

The others are right in the suggestions that your sensei is just a person. However, personally, I would never use that as an excuse for behavior that I exhibited that was contradictory to what I preached. I'm a regular guy just like most everyone on the site, but I have a set of standards that I try to live up to and if I fail I only blame myself, not some vague notion of fallibility inherent in my demographic.

 

[Laus]

I do hold myself to a higher standard. I'm not perfect, far from it, so no, I don't always meet it, but I always try, and I think I do pretty ok job of it. There is no greater challenge than to live well.

But my experience, like yours, was that the Sensei and organization who taught me to be that way did not adhere to that standard, or really even try. They made a good show of it, but it was for selfish reasons, and god help you if you got in their way.

Perhaps I shouldn't say that this Sensei is the one who taught me to be this way - I am who I am. But it was through training that I learned to be okay with that and developed the strength not to be swayed or broken by persuasive BS and hypocrisy. Its kind of ironic really, that my adherence not just to what I believe but what I was taught at my former dojo resulted in my having to leave it because I could no longer stomach being part of that organization.

I never really suffered from idealism or hero-worship with respect to my training or the Sensei - I always new he was just a man and never believed that martial artists were somehow above other "regular" people (which was a huge problem for him, because he demanded unquestioning obedience. Respect was not enough and certainly never reciprocated). But I did expect that he would at least be a "good person." Suffering from the same fallibilty as we all do, but basically good. It turned out he wasn't even that. I put a lot of time in with these people - close to 7 years - and in the end my leaving was, as K-man put it, like a nasty divorce. I went quietly and didn't make a fuss - he was throwing the fine china at me as I walked out the door.

I am grateful, thought, that while I was there I developed the strength to withstand that kind of disappointment. I no longer care if people don't like me for expecting them not to be jerks. But regardless of my generally pragmatic outlook that whole business still hurt a lot, and had it happened at another point in my life I would never have trained again. I still am, and I'm getting a lot more out of it now that I'm out of that melodrama. If I can say anything positive about that time its that it taught me who I really am and not be screwed up when things blow up in my face!

No one is infallible, but If you're going to preach a way of living, I expect you to do your best to live by it. That is the least anyone can ask and you owe to whoever you're preaching it to. As far as I'm concerned if you aren't willing live the way you expect everyone else to then you don't have the right to demand that of anyone else. But then the people whi peddle this brand of BS aren't worried about who they hurt in the process as long as it serves their ends.

 

[Cirdan]

The world is full of selfish, lying, greedy & lazy people. I don`t know if MAists are any better on average, but I sure have met some nice people in the community. Personally I`ll go to almost any length to keep my word once I have given it, loyalty is very important to me. As far as "moral" goes, that`s just another word for what is socially acceptable. Reciting texts on it like some magic spell is quite pointless and I`ve seen those that shout these the loudest often are people I woulden`t trust with my pocket change. Let the dojo be a place of dicipline and respect, a few will find self worth in those values and better their lives trough them. That is as far as it goes.

It just seems that when it comes down to it, people only keep their word when it suits them, and if it becomes a tiny bit inconvenient or they want something different they will break their promise to get what they want.

Yup, it is disappointing indeed. Hunger for prestige, power and luxury seems to be what rule people`s decitions these days.

 

[Shotokan Seishin]

Yeah, this is a tough situation for me. I tend to loose a lot of respect/trust for people who do not keep their word and I had hoped that my sensei would have shown a little more integrity given he preaches the mental aspect of karate as well as the physical. If an agreement is made I think one should stick with it.

For my own part a good portion of the struggle is that I have given my word to do this project and it is not yet complete. Even though my sensei has broken his part of our agreement my own sense of priority/honor/respect (whatever you want to call it) won’t allow me to break mine. As much as I feel kicked in the teeth I’m going to have to complete my end of the deal and then move on. Unfortunately all enjoyment has been sucked out of the project for me and it’s just thankless work now.

 

[jks9199]

Have you discussed it with him? Might there be an explanation that you're unaware of?

My personal preference is not to leap to "they did me wrong" without gathering more evidence, and you just haven't given much information here.

 

[KenpoVzla]

We are definitely not perfect and I don't think you should punish yourself if you can't follow up on something you promised. Say you're sorry and do something to make up for it, people will appreciate that too.

That being said, Martial Arts does teach lots of philosophies make you a better person, isn't that the point?

My Sensei told me, "now that you're black belt, you have to make sure to maintain your word." Philosophy wise, it makes sense, but you can't expect to hit the target 100% of the time.

 

[Balrog]

I think we should hold ourselves to a higher standard.

If we are going to teach life skills like honor and integrity, we'd best be prepared to lead by example. And if we can't walk the walk, we shouldn't talk the talk.

 

[kungfu penguin]

i try to be the better person all the time. I teach at an elementary school and i do my darndest to be the person i say i am. i tell the kids i hate liars and thieves. so i have never lied to them. i have refused to answer questions but i have never lied. one day one of my kids asked "why dont you buy bootlegged copies of movies?" i asked him what do i hate? he said liars and thieves. So i asked him how could i tell you not to lie or steal if you know i am buying "stolen" movies so i try to walk the walk even though it is sometimes harder.

 

[Archangel M]

Punching, kicking and rolling around a dojo is supposed to impart some sort of moral superiority? If you want to be a "better person" than it's up to YOU to make yourself a better person. Expecting other people, sports, hobbies or gymnastics to impart some sort of "aura" upon you is the road to cultism IMO.

 

[Stac3y]

I hold myself to a high ethical standard, but I did before I ever started MA, and would continue to do so if I stopped MA.

 

[tempus]

I think Martial Arts can instill discipline, self respect and point someone in the right direction, but it is up to the person to decide to go down that road.

I have been burned a few times in my life for taking someones "word", but yet I still do it. I was taught someones "word\honor\integrity" is more valuable then money. Something I believed before I took martial arts.

-Gary

 

[clfsean]

Nah... I'm Southern by upbringing & geography. Word is bond by default for me.