911 System Fails Pa. Man

[grydth]

If you are in a job where you are expected to HELP people..you don't tell someone calling 911 in severe pain "Im too fat. Walk your *** over here."

You go and keel over if it comes down to it or you should QUIT.

Much as I'd like to agree with you guys on this one, under the facts we appear to have here, I just cannot.

Your lines even sound great, better than mine ....but I think they are mistaken.

If the fat EMTs have a cardiac event, they save nobody. Indeed, they become a drain on already strained First Responder and Hospital resources themselves. Of what social utility is this?

No, I believe their duty is to save as many people as they can, within their safety limits, and those imposed by catastrophic weather conditions.

 

[Archangel M]

Where do you get "these were fat overweight EMT's" as "facts" out of this?

If you are incapable of walking through some snow and carrying a patient on a backboard then what the hell are you doing in EMS? Thats part of the job. This is like saying the fat overweight cop should get a pass on having to arrest a person because the struggle could give him a heart attack. With all respect I think you are in error on this.

 

[MJS]

The over weight EMT is obviously a guess, simply as a possible reason as to why the EMTs in this story, didn't physically walk to the mans house. But I too have to agree with Arch on this point....if you're not capable of doing the job, then perhaps the job isn't for them. Then again, its interesting, because given the fact that all of the agility tests that I've seen (I dont want to speak for other depts that I'm not familiar with) have been very physically demanding, the people who take these tests have to be in good shape, otherwise they're not going to make it. So these people, over time, get obese.

But, one would think, that if these people have a job, to help the public, then they need to do it. Im sure there has been cases, in which the rescuers have had to walk to get the patient. How would it look, if the victim dies, and in this case he did, and his family sued. Weather aside, I'm sure the question of whether or not all options were exhausted, to attempt to get to the victim, will be asked.

 

[grydth]

Point taken - I could have been more clear.

As "facts", I refer to the severe inclement weather, and the details, such as they are, contained in the source for the OP.

That many EMTs are out of shape is merely a general observation, one which we began discussing several posts ago. Nobody here as yet knows what their individual conditions were - but that could be relevant in determining the reasonableness of their actions.

But, no, I don't agree that those with physical limitations ought not be on the job. Let's get away from just "fat" as a generality, as that has a social stigma. There are many other types of limitations - say, bad knees and backs - that EMTs may have incurred bravely, without any fault.

As a side note, I don't feel communities would be better off without them at all. Especially communities like those around here, where many are volunteers. Many of these folks have a ton of experience which they use to help their more robust, but less experienced colleagues.

Maybe you associate with a tougher crowd than I do, because I know very few people who could carry a heavy individual through a couple feet of snow in white out conditions.... it is a fact that the weather was bad enough to seriously limit the progress of vehicular traffic, so I doubt many could carry another person through that.

I may be proven wrong, eventually, but right now I don't see enough to condemn these folks.

 

[Archangel M]

I have walked a few blocks during incliment weather to answer domesitc complaints and other incidents when storms made roads impassible. If we had to arrest and drag a non-compliant person to jail we would have.

Who would we call if we couldn't do the job? 911???

In these situations I always ask myself.."If that was my mom/wife/dad, would I walk through the snowstorm and carry him back on a board?"

 

[grydth]

Your community is indeed fortunate to have you...... but the famous Clint Eastwood line applies here: A man's got to know his limitations.

Perhaps the limitations of those there were exceeded by this storm.

Maybe you haven't been in them, but I have - there are storms that just stop everything dead. Nobody is getting through them. Maybe this was one - or maybe it was just enough to stop anyone that was there.

You make a call to push through and do your duty - one has to respect that. But another guy realizes that one or more of his crew likely won't make it - and I have to respect his decision to turn back.

 

[Cryozombie]

Maybe you haven't been in them, but I have - there are storms that just stop everything dead. Nobody is getting through them. Maybe this was one - or maybe it was just enough to stop anyone that was there.

Note to self:

When you become a Supervillian, commit crimes in these storms!

 

[Archangel M]

• Once, an ambulance made it across the bridge and was at the opposite end of the block on the narrow street where the couple lived — a little more than a football field's length. Again, paramedics didn't try to walk.

A little more than 100 yd's. And this was in Pittsburgh fer Pete's Sake. This wasn't some blinding storm out on the prairie where you are going to loose your direction and stumble into the wilderness.

And it's not safe for YOU to walk but you can tell the PATIENT to walk through the storm to get to YOU??? WTF?? That seems contradictory huh?

If the police waited 30 hrs on a 911 call and someone got killed would the weather have been an excuse for them?

 

[jks9199]

Well, we ARE talking about medics... Maybe if they'd sent some cops first so that the medics could stage and be advised the scene was safe?

Do I think that they should have made a much better effort? Absolutely. At a bare minimum, it seems that that they should have been able to get to him, assess him, and make further determinations from that point. But I'm willing to allow them a chance to explain the decision. I noted that the victims didn't seem to escalate their calls or the urgency of the call; if he had a lengthy history of non-emergency calls using medics as a taxi service, for example, that might have figured in their assessment of whether or not to try to reach him. The medics condition, the worsening whether conditions, neighborhood safety, or other things may be cited to justify their actions -- but the burden to explain it is on them once they arrive in the area.

 

[MJS]

Well, we ARE talking about medics... Maybe if they'd sent some cops first so that the medics could stage and be advised the scene was safe?

Is this SOP though? For the routine medicals, where I work, its either just an ambulance or fire and ambulance. If there is a crime scene, the patient is being violent, etc., then the PD goes and the EMS stages until the scene is safe. In this case though, I didn't see any need for PD.

Do I think that they should have made a much better effort? Absolutely. At a bare minimum, it seems that that they should have been able to get to him, assess him, and make further determinations from that point. But I'm willing to allow them a chance to explain the decision. I noted that the victims didn't seem to escalate their calls or the urgency of the call; if he had a lengthy history of non-emergency calls using medics as a taxi service, for example, that might have figured in their assessment of whether or not to try to reach him. The medics condition, the worsening whether conditions, neighborhood safety, or other things may be cited to justify their actions -- but the burden to explain it is on them once they arrive in the area.

Agreed, and this is why I dont like to base my opinion just on the original article, although at this point, just going on what we have, it seems like the system failed the man. He called for help, and there was some miscommunication.

 

[Archangel M]

http://www.wpxi.com/news/22701823/detail.html

Now the city has said emergency responders must go to the door of a 911 caller, no matter what.

Public Safety director Michael Huss said Mitchell may have survived if he had been carried out to the ambulance.

That wasn't required before this??

 

[jks9199]

Is this SOP though? For the routine medicals, where I work, its either just an ambulance or fire and ambulance. If there is a crime scene, the patient is being violent, etc., then the PD goes and the EMS stages until the scene is safe. In this case though, I didn't see any need for PD.

That was intended as a little bit of an inside joke. At least in my area, the fire & rescue departments have quite the reputation for responding to things ranging from overdoses to anything with the word "assault" mentioned in close proximity (including if the call taker or dispatcher was trying to season their lunch...) and staging until the PD clears the scene.

I sometimes wonder when they're going to have us clear the scene of those mean flames that might hurt them...

(We do generally enjoy a good relationship with fire board... just to be clear! There's just also plenty of ribbing...)

More seriously, where I work, almost all fire & rescue calls have a fire truck and ambulance dispatched. All firefighters are at least EMT-A certified.

Agreed, and this is why I dont like to base my opinion just on the original article, although at this point, just going on what we have, it seems like the system failed the man. He called for help, and there was some miscommunication.

Yep. One part of me wants to give them the benefit of the doubt, but we're looking at multiple calls, and no meaningful response.