7 Star Mantis Kung Fu vs. Tae Kwon Do

[7starmantis]

True lineage does make a difference ,and i just found out that your lineage is a mixed one ,so never mind. Your lineage is not a traditional Seven Star lineage ,it's a blend of Seven Star,Wah Lum,and Northern.

Raymond Fogg is your sigung correct?

I'm not of the opinions that lineage has much to do with your actual training and skill, but many people still believe it does. Yes, Raymond Fogg is my sigung, but we do have traditional 7* lineage through Lee Kam Wing of Hong Kong. We also have lineage in Wah Lum, your correct, but both lineages are seperate.

I really can't think of a way to put into words what type of arm attacks i'm talking about ,so you can understand. But you should have an idea since you said someone at your kwoon blends Hung Gar with your training.

We do get some Hung Gar training, but I've haven't found any brutal arm attacks that are beyond what we train in 7*.

What part of Texas is east Texas?

I have a friend in Texas a Hung Gar sifu that i will be visiting sometime soon ,i would like to visit your school or maybe even meet with you while in Texas.

This is not a challange or anything ,i like to meet with martial artist that i've talked to on the internet. I've met quite a few. I work for an airline ,so i'm able to fly for free.

jeff

I'd love to meet you, no challenge taken. We are about 1 1/2 hours east of Dallas. Tyler Texas, good old Rose Capital of the U.S. they say.

7sm

 

[Black Tiger Fist]

I'm not of the opinions that lineage has much to do with your actual training and skill, but many people still believe it does. Yes, Raymond Fogg is my sigung, but we do have traditional 7* lineage through Lee Kam Wing of Hong Kong. We also have lineage in Wah Lum, your correct, but both lineages are seperate.

Well, it depends on the lineage for the training part ,some lineages are still holding on to ancient old training traditions. Our lineage of Black Tiger is such a lineage.

Yes, you do have a traditional 7* lineage ,that came out wrong. What i was trying to say is that your sigung doesn't teach it that way though. Although you have seperate mantis lineages ,he teaches a mix of the lineages he has.

We do get some Hung Gar training, but I've haven't found any brutal arm attacks that are beyond what we train in 7*.

Well, that also depends on the Hung Gar lineage. Do you know who your Hung Gar lineage is through?

Do you guys do Kiu Sau training or 3* arm banging at all?

What type of arm conditioning do you guys do?

Here are some pics of black tiger arm conditioning tools.

The first two pictures are the Stone Locs ,as you swing them ,the concrete crashes into you forearms on both sides.

This is a concrete weight that you roll down your arm ,when it reaches the bottom you thrust it back up to your inside elbow joint.

This is what Black Tiger is famous for The 9 Armed Grinder Dummy made of Concrete and Iron. As you strike it ,it strikes back spinning with the same force you hit it with..

I'd love to meet you, no challenge taken. We are about 1 1/2 hours east of Dallas. Tyler Texas, good old Rose Capital of the U.S. they say.

7sm

My friend is in El Paso ,so i'll have to find out how far that is away and plan accordingly.

jeff

 

[Zepp]

Sorry for butting in here, but I'm a tad surprised that none of you seem to want a Tae Kwon Doist's advice for kicking a Tae Kwon Doist's ***.

First of all, though it seems like you guys are trying hard not to stereotype, you're still falling into that same old trap of assumptions about how a TKDist fights. Not all of us train at McDojo's or train for the Olympics and nothing else. (Though at times I know it seems like it.)

Let me say that a competent TKDist can strike with mutiple surfaces of each of his limbs from all ranges. That includes in close, and on the ground. He also knows how to break out of simple (at least) grabs and holds, as well as how to not get grabbed effectively in the first place. He's not going to throw kicks to the head while his opponent is in a position to take advantage of his raised leg. If he does kick high, it'll likely be when his opponent can't see it, or at least, isn't expecting any kind of kick above the belt. (If you're a female TKDist, please read the above paragraph as though he = she.)

There is one assumption here, made by 7starmantis, that I think is more reliable, and that is that "yielding will be your friend." TKD is an aggressive style that teaches to end a fight quickly. Someone who knows how to yield and counterattack properly could have an advantage.

Y'know the best way to beat a Tae Kwon Doist? The same way you'd fight any other trained fighter whom you've never faught before. You can be faster and stronger than they are, or you can be more vicious and more creative than they are, or you can offer to shake hands and take turns buying the next round of beers.

 

[TigerWoman]

That synopsis/strategy was pretty good, Zepp. I was going to say something but you beat me to it. Yes, we do use everything. Our school does alot of punching, elbow strikes, joint locks etc. Legs to keep the opponent away when he comes in close. Actually, I like close, jump back to the ribs, turn and knee to the groin. My favorite partner is alot taller to me, and that is the only way to fight him. (I'm nice to him though and he's nice to me too). Gee, I wonder what it will be like to spar with my daughter who is studying Kung Fu now - don't know what school she settled on. How long does it take to become somewhat proficient in KF?
TW

 

[WLMantisKid]

Every Northern PM practitioner I've seen has a lot of in close attacks.

As a Wah Lum practitioner, I notice a lot of southern flare in our style, as in lots of in close attacks mixed with the long ones...

 

[7starmantis]

Black Tiger Fist,
I sent you a PM so we could keep this thread on topic.

7sm

 

[mantis]

you have to watch out
people think that TKD fighters only concentrate on foot work and high kicks. You may be faced by a smart TKD fighter that knows how to use his hands and can get you into terrible locks. Also, TKD schools also concentrate on Hapkido as well, so do not just count that the person is only kicking you.
remember, if the TKD person wants to kick that means he is out of your mantis range, so you can back up and move as he tries to approach you with a kick, you have a plenty of space/time to run away, or back up. you never have to engage.
if he is in your mantis range, then bingo! this means he can't kick, he can only knee you, so use the first line of defense "the crane stance" when he knees you, and make sure you grab his arms and pluck if you want to kick, knee, elbow, punch, or palm the guy. here you can definitely throw the guy out of balance (TKD dont have strong stances that keep their center of balance low and stable, notice that when they kick the other foot is not rooted on the ground)
Kung fu practitioners some times keep themselves far from the TKD fighter which gives the TKD guy space to kick high (watch out for their high kick "the uprising kick") and they forget that if they got close enough to the guy he cant kick, and they can do everything they wish to him

good luck

 

[mantis]

Y'know the best way to beat a Tae Kwon Doist? The same way you'd fight any other trained fighter whom you've never faught before. You can be faster and stronger than they are, or you can be more vicious and more creative than they are, or you can offer to shake hands and take turns buying the next round of beers.

dear Zepp..
mantis gung fu doesnt require you to be stronger or faster. all we need is the TKDist to hit hard so he/she can be hit hard. Mantis uses soft techniques in yielding and plucking to use your energy against you. The way we get close to a fighter makes the oponent uncomfortable to move. especially that we "sense" the direction of his energy and use it against him/her.
still it depends on how bright the fighter is, and how fast he/she can understand the game and adapt to it...

-smashed mantis

 

[Tamojin]

In my schools lineage of 7* we learn long range techniques first then specialize in short form in-fighting. And arm and hand conditioning is rigourous and extensive. I cannot imagine a 7 * style that doesnt condition the arm and hand - its the praying mantis' bread and butter.

 

[clfsean]

Is 5 years a new necromancy record?

 

[Neijia]

After 2 years of traditional hardcore training in mantis I had beaten up 7 TKD black belts. It was easy to do. TKD is often worse than not knowing any martial art. I know I should say all arts are equal, but they are not. Its better to have a good TKD teacher than a bad mantis teacher, but if both teachers are equally good seven star will win hands down.

 

[oaktree]

After 2 years of traditional hardcore training in Tae Bo I had beaten up 2,000 Mantis masters. It was easy to do. Mantis is often worse than not knowing any martial art.
I know I should say all arts are equal but my ego is to big to even grasp such a concept. Its better to have a good Mantis teacher than a bad Tae Bo teacher,
but if both teachers are equally good Tae Bo will win hands down. My 2 years in Tae Bo says so.

 

[Neijia]

you treasure garbage, thats is great, see how far that takes you. I'm assuming you are learning TKD for the public. Some of the special forces TKD guys in Korea know their stuff, point strikes, joint locks, throws. Hapkido is awesome, Tae kyun is aewsome, non spec forces TKD sucks.

 

[oaktree]

I don't study TKD but I don't paint blanket statements about any martial arts just because I experience something doesn't mean its the truth for everyone else.

If you think Non Spec forces TKD sucks you are entitled to your opinion but in a public forum noone likes the guy who insults other practictioners in particular styles while stroking their ego on how they can beat multiple people up.

 

[elder999]

After 2 years of traditional hardcore training in mantis I had beaten up 7 TKD black belts. It was easy to do.

These guys, right? :lol:


:lfao:

 

[Tensei85]

I think since this thread has been resurrected for whatever reason, I'll lay out a few brief things. 1st. One of the basic principles in 7 Star Mantis is that we use soft against hard, we train these principles through the use of Sap Yi Yao Sau '12 Soft techniques'. 2nd We also train the Baat Gong Sau '8 Hard techniques'. & Mantis as I learned has excellent conditioning including a drill quite similar to Da Saam Sing (3 Stars Hitting) But on a side note TKD as I've experienced also has great conditioning involved, although I dont think that was ever in question but thought I'd interject that. For most peoples you can invision a gameplan all you want but once you actually experience a fight you may sometimes realize that your gameplan went out the window & is replaced with adrenalin & emotions so you revert to more primitive fighting techniques, which is why find a good Sifu/Teacher train what he/she has to offer become proficient at that. Train hard, train realistic, rest well & progress well. So these style vs style threads should stay dead that being said let it die once again lol

 

[qwerty]

Learning tae quan do and learning say 7 star matis is similar to comparing a tornado and a typhoon. While tae quan do is more useful and powerful in the short term, mastering seven star is more effective in the long term.