5/3/1 for Taekwondo athletes.

[ETinCYQX]

Let's get something constructive going here...

I don't know how many believers in heavy barbell training post here, but I am firmly convinced of it's benefits. Any of you guys run a 5/3/1 program for your strength training? In it's essence, 5/3/1 is a 3, 2 or 4 day powerlifting split done in a 3 week cycle. Week 3 is 100% for one set of 5 reps, Week 2 is 90% at 3 sets, Week 1 is 80% at 5 sets of 5. I just finished rehabbing an injury and am running starting strength 3x5 right now to get a base back (6 weeks left.) but I plan on starting with a 3 day 5/3/1 split over the summer. I'll post my plan later on.

That said, my question/discussion is two fold. Have any of you guys used a program like this to help develop strength? What did you think? I know there are a few here who lift heavy in addition to Taekwondo. For athletes, do you use a program like this? Only on season? only off season? all the time? Coaches, do you recommend heavy lifting to your athletes? on/off season? all the time?

 

[miguksaram]

I have read, and adopted, lifting 80% of my max at 5 sets of 5 reps. I am always up to learning better strength training. My goals are to tone more and get the padding off of my abs.
So, let me see if I have this correct. It is set in a 3 week cycle. My first week I do 80% of my max 5 times for 5 reps. Week 2 is 90% of my max 3 times for 5 reps and week 3 is 100% of my max 1 time for 5 reps. Is this correct or do I have it backwards?

 

[ETinCYQX]

That's correct, I listed it counting down.

Week three is your 5 rep max, not your 1 rep max. To get the weight of your first "week 3" in a cycle, take your current 1 rep max and multiply it by 0.8. That gives you a starting point to work out cycle one. Add five pounds to the week 3 weight each cycle.

The 5/3/1 is supposed to be run on the squat, overhead press, deadlift, and bench press.

 

[miguksaram]

Thanks. I will start this today, since today happens to be my lift day. I will keep you informed as to the progress.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Let's get something constructive going here...

I don't know how many believers in heavy barbell training post here, but I am firmly convinced of it's benefits. Any of you guys run a 5/3/1 program for your strength training? In it's essence, 5/3/1 is a 3, 2 or 4 day powerlifting split done in a 3 week cycle. Week 3 is 100% for one set of 5 reps, Week 2 is 90% at 3 sets, Week 1 is 80% at 5 sets of 5. I just finished rehabbing an injury and am running starting strength 3x5 right now to get a base back (6 weeks left.) but I plan on starting with a 3 day 5/3/1 split over the summer. I'll post my plan later on.

That said, my question/discussion is two fold. Have any of you guys used a program like this to help develop strength? What did you think? I know there are a few here who lift heavy in addition to Taekwondo. For athletes, do you use a program like this? Only on season? only off season? all the time? Coaches, do you recommend heavy lifting to your athletes? on/off season? all the time?

I used to lift and did routines of this nature. I no longer lift weights; I do isometrics, stretching, and calisthenics, but I do agree with you about the benefits of weight training.

 

[ETinCYQX]

Thanks. I will start this today, since today happens to be my lift day. I will keep you informed as to the progress.

Good luck, let us know what you think.

I used to lift and did routines of this nature. I no longer lift weights; I do isometrics, stretching, and calisthenics, but I do agree with you about the benefits of weight training.

This program supposedly is easy to recover from too, even with heavy work sets.

 

[ACJ]

I love barbells, I love programs like these and SS, but lately I've been focusing on bodyweight stuff, that seems to doing a lot for my performance in taekwondo. But I always go back to machines and barbells when I need to work on my base strength.
I don't really let my taekwondo affect my lifting schedule, unless it is close to a competition, and I end up lifting solid for about 11 months in a year.

Are you also doing other exercises beside the 4 you are doing 5/3/1 for?
I'd say chuck in some Oly lifts if you've got the base strength and someone to learn from, and you're doing nothing for you back in this. Some Chin Ups maybe? And of course, assistors.

 

[miguksaram]

Day damn 1 ha.ha.ha. - This week will be the easy week because as I mentioned I already do 80% on a regular basis. I will note that I added leg presses to the agenda. I alternate lifting and running (well tread milling on an incline.). So today will be a run day.

I will do my best to keep this regimen going for the summer time and try to remember to report back any progress. Thanks again for the info.

 

[ETinCYQX]

I love barbells, I love programs like these and SS, but lately I've been focusing on bodyweight stuff, that seems to doing a lot for my performance in taekwondo. But I always go back to machines and barbells when I need to work on my base strength.
I don't really let my taekwondo affect my lifting schedule, unless it is close to a competition, and I end up lifting solid for about 11 months in a year.

Are you also doing other exercises beside the 4 you are doing 5/3/1 for?
I'd say chuck in some Oly lifts if you've got the base strength and someone to learn from, and you're doing nothing for you back in this. Some Chin Ups maybe? And of course, assistors.

Oly lifts I do during the season, basically just power cleans. There are none in my 5/3/1 split which is this:

A is Monday, B is Wednesday, C is Friday. Weighted sit ups and calf raises are ramped.

Day damn 1 ha.ha.ha. - This week will be the easy week because as I mentioned I already do 80% on a regular basis. I will note that I added leg presses to the agenda. I alternate lifting and running (well tread milling on an incline.). So today will be a run day.

I will do my best to keep this regimen going for the summer time and try to remember to report back any progress. Thanks again for the info.

Have fun . 5/3/1 you can basically pick and choose your routine, that's the nice thing about it. Whatever you feel will help your four lifts the most or help your sport the most.

 

[RobinTKD]

I like the look of this, I may start training it myself.

I have read that you shouldn't have to lift more than your own bodyweight though, is that true? And do any of you use Kettlebells?

 

[ETinCYQX]

I like the look of this, I may start training it myself.

I have read that you shouldn't have to lift more than your own bodyweight though, is that true? And do any of you use Kettlebells?

Nope, that's crap . I use kettlebells for conditioning sometimes.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Been lifting since 1970 or so.

Mostly Becnhes and cusrls for upper body and after leg injuries did and still do seated leg presses and leg extensions.

IMNSHO most people do not know what they are doing. They don't lift until failure. They do the wrong stuff.

For instance I often ask "How do you know when to go up in weight?" Seldom get a definitive answer or plan.

 

[ACJ]

Oly lifts I do during the season, basically just power cleans. There are none in my 5/3/1 split which is this:

A is Monday, B is Wednesday, C is Friday. Weighted sit ups and calf raises are ramped.

Looks pretty solid man. And happy to hear you do the Oly lifts, they're so good for contact athletes it's not funny.

 

[ACJ]

Been lifting since 1970 or so.

Mostly Becnhes and cusrls for upper body and after leg injuries did and still do seated leg presses and leg extensions.

IMNSHO most people do not know what they are doing. They don't lift until failure. They do the wrong stuff.

For instance I often ask "How do you know when to go up in weight?" Seldom get a definitive answer or plan.

Arrgghhh, your poor posture! Do some back work to balance the chest stuff.

And are you talking about the leg extension machine? I've heard that those can put some serious shearing force on your knees.

 

[ETinCYQX]

Been lifting since 1970 or so.

Mostly Becnhes and cusrls for upper body and after leg injuries did and still do seated leg presses and leg extensions.

IMNSHO most people do not know what they are doing. They don't lift until failure. They do the wrong stuff.

For instance I often ask "How do you know when to go up in weight?" Seldom get a definitive answer or plan.

Lifting until failure generally is for assistance work or hypertrophy (bodybuilding), not the four big lifts. Go up in weight every workout until you have to start microloading

 

[Earl Weiss]

And are you talking about the leg extension machine? I've heard that those can put some serious shearing force on your knees.

Yes, started using the leg extension machine as part of rehab after torn ACL and Knee scope. Stayed with it since.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Lifting until failure generally is for assistance work or hypertrophy (bodybuilding), not the four big lifts. Go up in weight every workout until you have to start microloading

Please explain "Assistance work"

If only for body building, how do you gauge when you've gotten stronger?
Go up every workout? How much?
Please explain "Microloading".

FWIW, been lifting for over 40 years. Always trained to failure. Always trained to max my size / weight to strength ratio.

 

[ETinCYQX]

Please explain "Assistance work"

If only for body building, how do you gauge when you've gotten stronger?
Go up every workout? How much?
Please explain "Microloading".

FWIW, been lifting for over 40 years. Always trained to failure. Always trained to max my size / weight to strength ratio.

"Assistance work" is gym work done to target specific weaknesses that hinder the four big lifts. In my 5/3/1 split, weighted sit ups are an example. In fact most of Wednesday is assistance work.

For the big four powerlifting motions, You should be grinding out your last rep. Not keep going to failure, not quite the same thing. Ideally you should know your 1 rep max, 3 rep max and 5 rep max or a reasonable approximation. For me, I'd test my 1RM about once a month. Machines are for rehab, specific assistance or bodybuilding.

For the first little while, five pounds per workout on each lift. When you can no longer make that jump, micro loading. Micro loading is increasing weight very slightly, as little as 1-2lbs at a time. Some people make their own plates for micro loading.

Everything I've said here is what I've been told by strength coaches and powerlifting coaches

 

[Earl Weiss]

"

For the big four powerlifting motions, You should be grinding out your last rep. Not keep going to failure, not quite the same thing.For the first little while, five pounds per workout on each lift. When you can no longer make that jump, micro loading. Micro loading is increasing weight very slightly, as little as 1-2lbs at a time. Some people make their own plates for micro loading.

IO think we are very much on the same page but not sure. When I talk about going to failure I mean that your plan should be X reps not whatever, and the X rep should be the last one you can do not X plus 1,2, etc.

Also Since my free weight set has 1.25lb plates I guess I used what you call micro loading. If I could do 10 reps, the next workout I would add 2.5lbs. Used that weight until I could do 10 reps then added the same. Once I hit a certain level my increases stopped. Tried to also not gain weight.

Using a plan like this if you increase once a month the yearly gain is significant.

 

[ACJ]

Let's talk about weight for a second.

Your weight = bones + organs + etc + water weight + organic mass (food) + muscle mass + fat stores.

Now unless you cut off a limb or get your appendix removed you've only got muscle, fat, water and food as controllable.

So water weight and food weight you drop in less than 48 hours with smart dieting and fasting, so really it's more a transient weight than anything, so i'm not going to worry about it.

So muscle mass and fat are what we're going to look at.

Change in weight = (energy in - energy out) / ~ 35000 (for gj/kg)

So why am I saying this? Because when you say.

Used that weight until I could do 10 reps then added the same. Once I hit a certain level my increases stopped. Tried to also not gain weight.

I don't understand what you're doing to not try and gain wait with this exercise? If you don't eat at a surplus, you won't gain.
Secondly 10 reps is right in the middle of the popular muscle gain (hypertrophy), or muscle retention "rep-range". Or as one study puts it, the 36-90 second rep range. It seems to me that if one of your aims is to not gain weight; easy, don't eat above maintenance. And if you are eating at maintenance, then chances are hypertrophy rep ranges are giving you many benefits, so pick a program for strength, power, or endurance?

I don't know you, I don't know your aims, I don't know your progress, but it sounds to me that, despite any progress you have made, there are very popular methods that would have got you there much faster, or more efficiently.
I like to consider myself quite well versed with these methods, as I am sure are others on this thread. So if you'd like to tell us a bit about yourself, I am happy to make some suggestions about possible methods that you may want to consider.