360 Degrees of History?

[Spookey]

Dear All,

I am interested to hear your thoughts on this...

Originally a military martial art, Taekwondo-in all over Korea came through a bottleneck called the Oh Do Kwan. This was primarily due to Compulsory Military Service. Accordingly, there were so many martial artists that gave input, creating a true military martial art focused on hoshin-sool and combat application. Inclusions were striking, blocking, throwing, locking (bone breaking), choking, falling, etc.

After garnering international attention and becoming both a major martial sport, as well as a marketing and income engine, the majority of Taekwondo and the public image thereof changed. With the invent and popularity of "Mixed Martial Arts" competitions the reputation of Taekwondo as a fighting art was all but lost in the early 1990's. Becoming viewed more as a "kiddie art" or "Combat Like Sport".

Throughout the first decade of the millennium, more and more schools worked to include some ground fighting. Maybe introduced a BJJ program in their dojangs, incorporated more Hapkido or Judo into the hoshin-sool training, or some other implementation to garner the favor of the older teen and adult market.

Additionally, we began to see a resurgence of the individual kwans in a way that kind of resembles "States Rights" (as if the Kwans are the individual states within the nation of Kukkiwon). Also, arts such as Teukong Moo Sool, and Gong Kwan Yoo Sool began to reach outside of Korea and touch the masses. Much of this via the internet, and other mass media portals.

All that being said, is it possible that the Taekwondo being taught today in many dojang (with the additions of Hapkido, Judo, BJJ, Gong Kwan Yoo Sool, etc.) is bringing the taught curriculum back to where it began?

Has Taekwondo "Revolved" as opposed "Evolved"

The Revolution of Taekwondo, Haha...

TAEKWON!
"Spookey"

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Personally , I think trying to 'evolve' an art is where it all breaks down as the origins often get lost. My GM moved to australia in the late 60's (I think) , he came from korea where he had studied tkd in its original form. He used to fight japanese in "anything goes" ring fighting , it was brutal , even the winner often ended up with broken limbs. Our chief instructor tells me stories of the sheer brutality of these fights , back then tkd was as 'street effective' as they come , these fights allowed for punches , kicks , eye gouges , groin strikes and anything else you wanted to do , and if you couldnt dish it out or defend against it you were in real trouble. Anyway , he moved here and set up a curriculum from white belt through to 9th dan black belt and in the 40 or more years our club has operated he has changed very little. Grading requirements , training practices etc etc have remained the same. As the "olympic style" sparring came in , the mcdojos , the flashy kicks etc came in vogue our GM just laughed at it and would say "that not tkd". Other long standing clubs in my area have tried to 'move with the times' and have just ended up with some bastardised version of tkd , which to be honest , are really not street effective at all. TKD at its core is a very well rounded martial art which is extremely effective and its just a shame that people have tried to evolve it , because in my opinion 'if it aint broke dont fix it' . Again , just my opinion , but I think too often in many things people just make changes to try and make a name for themselves or just for the sake of it. Fortunately there are still clubs out there that teach real tkd.

 

[Spookey]

Dear Sir,

I am completely familiar with the origin of Taekwondo and the lethality of it's practitioners in its most raw form! I too come from the lineage of RoK Army and Marine Cops, Taekwondo Instructors from the 60's.

May I ask your instructors name?

TAEKWON!
Spooks

 

[Manny]

Did TKD evolved? Yes, from the WTF yes, it evolved in a kidie limited full contact sport. I saw this back in the late 80's when TKD was introduced to the world in the Seoul Olimpic games. I was a new black belt when this and slowly I saw how the MA evolved into the SPORT this was a thing that put me away (amoung other things and interests) from TKD for almpost 15-16 years.

In my country the 95-98% of all tkd dojangs are WTF and most of the class is kids and teens and very few grown up men/women.

WTF has made huge effort to show the world the Sport TKD and had succeded, however this effort has it's consecuences and TKD is the one of the MA (sport) more recognized and practiced in the world but has changed a lot the teaching of this art, most of the techs taught are sport ones leaving besides the truly MA core of the TKD.

Manny

 

[Earl Weiss]

While it is rue that TKD was developed in and thu the military, I think it is a misnomer to call TKD or any empty hand fighting system a "Military Martial Art" . Although there are anecdotal accounts of military empty hand fighting encounters (See: "A Killing Art") most soldiers rely on their weapons.

 

[dortiz]

"Originally a military martial art"

The big problem with is that the original Masters mostly studied Shotokon in College.

So not originally, maybe later but originally it was derived from a style of Karate dumbed down for safety so it could be inserted in the Japanese school system.

They made it bad a@# but if we are going to say originally we are leaving off some vital info there.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Did TKD evolved? Yes, from the WTF yes, it evolved in a kidie limited full contact sport. I saw this back in the late 80's when TKD was introduced to the world in the Seoul Olimpic games. I was a new black belt when this and slowly I saw how the MA evolved into the SPORT this was a thing that put me away (amoung other things and interests) from TKD for almpost 15-16 years.

In my country the 95-98% of all tkd dojangs are WTF and most of the class is kids and teens and very few grown up men/women.

WTF has made huge effort to show the world the Sport TKD and had succeded, however this effort has it's consecuences and TKD is the one of the MA (sport) more recognized and practiced in the world but has changed a lot the teaching of this art, most of the techs taught are sport ones leaving besides the truly MA core of the TKD.

Manny

Good points there Manny. I talk to so many people who would love to learn the true form of tkd in a non "kiddie" environment. There is definetely a market out there for it and if more schools taught it this way the students would come. We have one that has opened near me recently which are trying to do this and I will be interested to see how it goes. It must be very frustrating for people like yourself who saw this evolution take place as the olympic aspect took over. I only started tkd in my early 30's and was oblivious to the 'olympic style' until the last olympics and joining forums such as these and watching youtube. I just thought all tkd practitioners learnt what Im learning.

 

[Manny]

Good points there Manny. I talk to so many people who would love to learn the true form of tkd in a non "kiddie" environment. There is definetely a market out there for it and if more schools taught it this way the students would come. We have one that has opened near me recently which are trying to do this and I will be interested to see how it goes. It must be very frustrating for people like yourself who saw this evolution take place as the olympic aspect took over. I only started tkd in my early 30's and was oblivious to the 'olympic style' until the last olympics and joining forums such as these and watching youtube. I just thought all tkd practitioners learnt what Im learning.

Thank to you my friend. When I star in TKD the only thing I wanted was to be a better person,learn self defense to have control of myself and my enviroment (this sunds weird from a 16 years old kid but it's true) and to not fear. I wasn't a competitor, yes I compete in local tournaments but I really wasn't pasionate to do it, in those years we hadn't poomsae competition or self defense competition and maybe in this thing I will be a competitor.

The truth I never liked the WTF competition rules, offcouse in that years (1980's) I didn't know a thing about Hap Ki Do for example and in those years HKD maybe was exotic thing in my country, we only knew Judo and Karate and TKD did fit in the Karate thing.

It's true back in the 1980's we did a lot of kick training but it was equal to poomsae and self defense practice, we used the hands more than now, maybe the kicks were the simple ones with some spining kicks but all were efective most of the times, forget about the gymnastics kicks.

This days TKD is most of the times kicks and more kicks, the kids do not even how to clench a fist believe me I see everytime, they lack uo upper body string to deliver a powerful blow with the hands.

I think the day I have my dojang it will be directed to young people and above, my thing is to teach smart techs for serius matters, I am not againts to teach little children but my dojang instead of a McDojo will be a fine restaurant if you get me, maybe not to big but with nice food to serve.

Manny

 

[granfire]

"Originally a military martial art"

The big problem with is that the original Masters mostly studied Shotokon in College.

So not originally, maybe later but originally it was derived from a style of Karate dumbed down for safety so it could be inserted in the Japanese school system.

They made it bad a@# but if we are going to say originally we are leaving off some vital info there.

Well, you have to give that a nod.

Without the Army there would be no TKD still.
Naturally, the roots go deeper, and given the history, not one source alone gave birth to TKD. Though, of course, being closet on the time line, Shotokan is the Godfather.

 

[bluekey88]

Well, you have to give that a nod.

Without the Army there would be no TKD still.
Naturally, the roots go deeper, and given the history, not one source alone gave birth to TKD. Though, of course, being closet on the time line, Shotokan is the Godfather.

So then, following on Shotokan = Godfather, then ITF = Sonny, WTF = Michael, and ATA = Fredo?



Peace,
Erik

 

[granfire]

Yep.

 

[goingd]

Taekwondo revolved -- That would be a fair assessment, I agree, at least to an extent. Nothing is ever exactly the same as it was one second ago, let alone sixty years ago. It is always a matter mostly of how it is being taught, not "what it teaches."

My philosophy is this: Taekwondo does not teach people - people teach Taekwondo. Reverting back to a model of the original curriculum would be a lovely thing. However, we have to be careful to recognize when it is a reversion, and when it is a simulation - a shell of its original self.