3 star

[windwalker099]

"sweeping close"

video title...

Interesting in that the teacher uses what some might call either 3-Star: "三星撞 (sān xīng zhuàng)" or 5-Star: "五星撞 (wǔ xīng zhuàng)" Body hardening drills done in most CMA styles, thought to condition the muscle and bone for impact.

The drill movements use a movement he calls "reap" very similar to a movement called
"Parting the Wild Horse's Mane" "野马分鬃" (yě mǎ fēn zōng) in Taiji, done in a different way..

The teacher talks about expanding the chest "out" to aid in striking, which is the opposite of what is called
含胸拔背 (hán xiōng bá bèi), expanding the back and sinking the chest used in Taiji.

The method shown the opposite of internal principles 内家拳 (nèi jiā quán),
is based on external principles 外家拳 (wài jiā quán).

thoughts ?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

"sweeping close"

video title...

Interesting in that the teacher uses what some might call either 3-Star: "三星撞 (sān xīng zhuàng)" or 5-Star: "五星撞 (wǔ xīng zhuàng)" Body hardening drills done in most CMA styles, thought to condition the muscle and bone for impact.

The drill movements use a movement he calls "reap" very similar to a movement called
"Parting the Wild Horse's Mane" "野马分鬃" (yě mǎ fēn zōng) in Taiji, done in a different way..

The teacher talks about expanding the chest "out" to aid in striking, which is the opposite of what is called
含胸拔背 (hán xiōng bá bèi), expanding the back and sinking the chest used in Taiji.

The method shown the opposite of internal principles 内家拳 (nèi jiā quán),
is based on external principles 外家拳 (wài jiā quán).

thoughts ?

We train 3 star or 6 star. My teachers told us never inflate the chest. Also, they said “sink the chest” round the back should not be visible, it’s internal, it’s a “feeling” not an exaggerated posture. Also, the prime movers for the punch are the triceps, the pectoralis major, and teres minor and major. Pulling with the foot, Turning the waist, connecting arm to the back, and maintaining correct posture while moving and striking cannot be accomplished in an efficient manner if the chest is expanded to the front. I would have to disagree with this teacher’s methodology.

 

[windwalker099]

they said “sink the chest” round the back should not be visible, it’s internal, it’s a “feeling” not an exaggerated posture.

This teacher demo's 含胸拔背 (hán xiōng bá bèi), expanding the back sinking the chest **, among other requirement's used in Taiji to create 掤劲 (pēng jìn) "expanding force"

**
" 含胸拔背 (hán xiōng bá bèi), contain the chest, raise the back"

Verbiage used in the video

Verbiage used by different teachers may vary
in explaining the same principles in use.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The teacher talks about expanding the chest "out" to aid in striking,

There is no reason that Taiji should define a restriction to restrict Taiji people not doing some body functions.

When you try to "crack" your opponent's elbow joint, you need to expand out your chest to put pressure on his elbow joint.



When you bounce your opponent away with your belly, you also need to expand your chest.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

There is no reason that Taiji should define a restriction to restrict Taiji people not doing some body functions.

When you try to "crack" your opponent's elbow joint, you need to expand out your chest to put pressure on his elbow joint.



When you bounce your opponent away with your belly, you also need to extend your chest.

Yes, but those are not strikes. When you only try to see things through the wrestling lens you may miss some detail that applies but not to wrestling.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Yes, but those are not strikes. When you only try to see things through the wrestling lens you may miss some detail that applies but not to wrestling.

Is Taiji a striking art, wrestling art, or both? Even in striking art, clinch can happen too. To use over hook to crack under hook is very common in a clinch.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Is Taiji a striking art, wrestling art, or both? Even in striking art, clinch can happen too. To use over hook to crack under hook is very common in a clinch.

Again, you miss the point. Whether Tai Chi is striking or throwing (it’s both) is irrelevant to this particular discussion. The difference being discussed is related to strikes. If the person isn’t striking, then what you say is relevant, correct, efficient use of body mechanics. People use all kinds of body mechanics for all sorts of things that may work, but are not most efficient for a given action. What you describe works for that action, bowing the chest out is not the most efficient way to strike regardless of the art or style choice.

 

[windwalker099]

Is Taiji a striking art, wrestling art, or both? Even in striking art, clinch can happen too. To use over hook to crack under hook is very common in a clinch.

It's both and neither, depending on one's practice.

To frame it a little differently :

The shape the development takes, is based on the practices used to cultivate it.

Waijia (外家) enhancing natural abilities, adding to what is already there.
develops what is called wai jin (外劲).

Neijia (内家) changing natural abilities, working with what is already there.
develops what is known as nei jin (内劲).

The practice shown in the video:

Is based on Waijia (外家) outer methods for developing the body combined with usage based on the development.

Looking through the lens of Taiji, what is shown is fundamentally different.
Different, not wrong or incorrect.

Although the teacher makes many references suggesting this is the way that Taiji practitioners would use a movement.
As if it's the same.

Thought it was a good illustration of an outer practice trying to align it to an inner practice.
based on movement alone...

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Looking through the lens of Taiji,

Why do you want just to look through the lens of Taiji? Why don't you look through the lens of general MA? Taiji is just one of many MA systems.

"Parting the Wild Horse's Mane" "野马分鬃" (yě mǎ fēn zōng) in Taiji, done in a different way..

In your video, his arm is below his opponent's arm. That's Taiji "diagonal fly - your arm below your opponent's arm" and not Taiji "wide horse rafting mane - your arm above your opponent's arm".

Both "diagonal fly" and "wide horse rafting mane" are "body squeeze" throw. It is trained in many MA system (such as long fist, SC, ...). It's not a Taiji only move.

I though we are discussing the throwing art here and not the striking art. The chest expanding is needed if you want to throw your opponent sideway (sideway body squeeze).



If you just want to throw your opponent's backward, the chest expanding won't be needed (forward body squeeze).




You can also see the chest expanding here. Both are sideway body squeeze.

 

[windwalker099]

Why do you want just to look through the lens of Taiji? Why don't you look through the lens of general MA? Taiji is just one of many MA systems.

Quite right

Hopefully, those with other experiences based on their practice can comment on what is shown in the OP video.

1. Is it a useful practice?
2. Do the principles align with your own practice?
3, Are the strategies based on the techniques sound?
4. Have you or did you do similar practices in the past?


2. No "expanding the chest" seems to be different from what is commonly done in taiji.
4. Yes, have practiced similar arm conditioning drills in the past..

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Hopefully, those with other experiences based on their practice can comment on what is shown in the OP video.

1. Is it a useful practice?
2. Do the principles align with your own practice?
3, Are the strategies based on the techniques sound?
4. Have you or did you do similar practices in the past?

The "3 stars" has nothing to do with "body squeeze". I don't know why he mixes both in one video. The important of the back leg control is not mentioned in that video.

If you want to throw your opponent sideway, only controlling his leading leg is enough. But if you want to throw your opponent backward, you have to control his back leg.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

2. No "expanding the chest" seems to be different from what is commonly done in taiji.

At 0.29 and 1.05, I can see the chest expanding there.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

At 0.29 and 1.05, I can see the chest expanding there.

I still don’t see how expanding chest aids a strike.