2005 Theme, Gyokko ryu, Bojutsu and sword

[Don Roley]

Ok, I was wrong.

A source I consider beyond question has told me that there is Gyokko ryu bojutsu kata. The kamae and their names, etc, all follow the Kukishin model. Whether this is for convinience or happy coincidence I do not know. But there are kata from the Gyokko ryu to be learned if you are in the right place and the right time.

Lessons to be learned from this.

1) All humans make mistakes, Don Roley is human thus he makes mistakes.

2) Just when you think there is nothing left to be learned from the Bujinkan, reality slaps you up alongside the head. Pity the guys who left the Bujinkan thinking that they knew it all.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

I can see Aric's angle on the statement, at least I believe so. Gyokko ryu can be viewed as a physical representation of esoteric buddhism (or was originally). Ten ryaku uchu gassho in buddhism is about polishing the heart....a promise to the heavens, for example...not so much a "martial" application.

Reminds me of a quote about Chinese internal arts..."hah! For health? For health my ***!! You could KILL someone with that stuff, man!!!"

 

[Mountain Kusa]

Is this book applicable to Kukishin Ryu Bo training in the Bijinkan?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/4901619020/103-6152071-7609457?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/4901619020.01._PE15_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

TIA,
Mike

I was given the book as a gift and looked on the back of it as I remembered there was something on there about Takamatsu. Kiba Koshiro which wrote the book was a student of Takamatsu's. It is a valid book for use with your studies.

 

[Shogun]

You could KILL someone with that stuff, man!!!"

No doubt...I was actually worried it may be too violent. Interesting form of Budo.

 

[Kizaru]

As stated in previous posts on this thread, we've been focusing on Gyokko ryu here in Japan since January this year, and so far we've covered Koku, Renyo and Danshu.

So my question to the board is, "What do you think are the most important points to Koku, Renyo and Danshu? What have you learned by doing them?"

The senior Shihan have also mentioned that there is a connection between those three kata (Koku, Renyo and Danshu). What do you see as the connection between those three?

 

[Dale Seago]

The senior Shihan have also mentioned that there is a connection between those three kata (Koku, Renyo and Danshu). What do you see as the connection between those three?

The most salient thing that jumps out at me is that in all of them you're taking the opponent from below.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

I see them as a fusion of techniques from the torite kihon goho.

 

[Mickey Mullins]

Hello,

I am probably waaaay off base,but in my opinion the way these kata effectively use the three principle kamae in a totoku(shield)method,its hard to draw the line between offensive/defensive movement.It seems as though you are simply swatting away the hornet as it tries to sting you,until you catch the rythm and can mash it.As for where the bo is interjected I haven't seen any of this so I can't comment(although I probably shouldn't have commented on the "unarmed" aspect either.)
Mickey Mullins

 

[DWeidman]

Hello,

I am probably waaaay off base,but in my opinion the way these kata effectively use the three principle kamae in a totoku(shield)method,its hard to draw the line between offensive/defensive movement.

Mickey Mullins

Combat application doesn't have offensive and defensive movement - IMHO. Everything is "offensive" - even when you are retreating - it is to gain better position to Kill the other guy. Movement is just movement.



I just went through a weekend with Tim Bathurst -- and I am having a really hard time writing this stuff down -- as it is really abstracted and "conceptual". I will say that I am PLEASANTLY surprised with what is going on this year - from what Tim B. brought here...



-Daniel

 

[Dale Seago]

Combat application doesn't have offensive and defensive movement - IMHO. Everything is "offensive" - even when you are retreating - it is to gain better position to Kill the other guy. Movement is just movement.

It may sound like a semantic picking of nits to some, but I agree with you on this.

Glad you had the opportunity to train with Tim -- he's superb!!

 

[Mickey Mullins]

Hello,

Originally Posted by DWeidman
Combat application doesn't have offensive and defensive movement - IMHO. Everything is "offensive" - even when you are retreating - it is to gain better position to Kill the other guy. Movement is just movement.

This is a very good outlook,I always learn so much from the senior practicioners in these nice conversations.Unconventional thoughts.

I just went through a weekend with Tim Bathurst -- and I am having a really hard time writing this stuff down -- as it is really abstracted and "conceptual". I will say that I am PLEASANTLY surprised with what is going on this year - from what Tim B. brought here...

I would LOVE to hear more about this,if you're having a hard time writing it down though,imagine how tough it would be to try and explain.OOhhh well....

Dale are you as captivated by the concepts of this year as well?
Mickey Mullins

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Sometimes a spine twist is just a spine twist.:shrug:

 

[Tenchijin2]

Well... my first post here at Martialtalk!

Apparently something I said at a seminar is causing a small amount of confusion in this thread. Jay has already more or less explained what I meant by the statement about Gyokko ryu being about polishing the heart, and not so much about fighting.

To further expand, it doesn't mean that the techniques aren't combat techniques, or that one doesn't need to develop proficiency in life/death aspects of things like taihenjutsu muto dori and so on. But Gyokko ryu has overarching philosophical content, and from what I have read and seen, this is the most important part of the ryu.

The emphasis on esoteric models like sanshin/gogyo, references to things like the four seasons of nature, and flowery names like tenryaku uchu gassho all have a very deep implication. The ultimate goal of this ryu is 'enlightenment', and the removing of the self from action, therefore becoming a vessel for divine justice or what-not.

I don't particularly care about much of that stuff, but it is no doubt the underpinning of the ryu.

Hope that helps.



aric

 

[shinbushi]

Just had a seminar here with Tim,
The main theme was throwing out the form all together and keeping the essence. The Gyokko Ryu bo was using a bo as a shield and then 'seeing' what happens. We also did some Kukishinden Okuden Bojutsu. Tim said they are doing ONE Gyokko Ryu kata a month and studying its principals and maai, through numerous henka.

 

[Mickey Mullins]

Hello Aric and David,

shinbushi wrote:
Just had a seminar here with Tim,
The main theme was throwing out the form all together and keeping the essence. The Gyokko Ryu bo was using a bo as a shield and then 'seeing' what happens. We also did some Kukishinden Okuden Bojutsu. Tim said they are doing ONE Gyokko Ryu kata a month and studying its principals and maai, through numerous henka.

Someone had mentioned the waza of the Gyokko bo as more like hanbo,and NOT like Kukishinden bo.I was wondering is this similar to the bo henka in the Koto Ryu video(from Quest)as it "looks" different than Kukishinden(well some of it anyway).How would you compare what you are seeing now,versus this.Any insight appreciated.

Aric,
Interesting points about Gyokko Ryu.

Mickey Mullins

 

[shinbushi]

Hello Aric and David,
Someone had mentioned the waza of the Gyokko bo as more like hanbo,and NOT like Kukishinden bo.I was wondering is this similar to the bo henka in the Koto Ryu video(from Quest)as it "looks" different than Kukishinden(well some

Mickey Mullins

Remember Soke is not teaching formal kata this year (At least from what Tim showed). It is more of placing the bo between you and your opponent. Sorry it is hard to explain, once you see it you will know what I mean. All I can say is it is going to be a fun year. Even the Okden kata of kukishinden the focus was on the maai and usage of kukan not the waza.

 

[Tenchijin2]

I can't comment at all, since I haven't seen this year's theme firsthand.


aric

 

[Shogun]

Hey, Aric. I attended the seminar. I may have started the confusion in my post but we have all come to an agreement.


BTW, do you know when you wil be coming out here again? I attended a Pedro Sauer BJJ seminar last weekend, but its just not Taijutsu.

 

[Tenchijin2]

I'll be out as soon as Domonic and Andrew can get enough support to do it again. Bug them about it, it should happen before too long.

 

[Shogun]

Alright, I'll email 'em and bug em. I want my jiujitsu instrcutor to experience BBT. he has done Kali, Muay Thai, BJJ, TKD,...but no ninpo