2005 Theme, Gyokko ryu, Bojutsu and sword

[Don Roley]

In another thread, Kizaru asked this.

This year's focus is "Gyokko ryu"...is anyone interested in starting a "Gyokko ryu thread" and sharing experiences?

Ask and ye shall receive.

I don't like talking about techniques and such on line. There is just too much information left out of the written word to do a decent job of it. But I would like to help people out if I can.

Here is some stuff that may be of help. The year's theme is Gyokko ryu and such. But it looks like we will only be doing the lowest level of the Gyokko ryu. There are 12 kata in that section and we so far have been doing one kata a month. Last month Hatsumi was showing Koku, this month it is Renyou. If you show up to Japan, you may want to review some notes just as a prelude and preperation. Of course, you still will have your mind blown. But maybe it would be nice to recognize the kata and it's name when you see the variations being done to it.

I know of at least two shihan that are also teaching bojutsu kata. Time Bathurst is leaving Japan in a week or so. If you don't bring your own, you will have to find one here. If it is not a break down version (which they have at Izumi in Shinjuku) they must have a covering over them. For some reason it is against the law to carry a rokushakubo down the street without some sort of cover for it. The police rarely need an excuse to harrass non-Japanese and may try something even if you are within the letter of the law. Why do you think that fishing cases are so popular among gaijin Bujinkan members here? Know the law and follow it.

As always, be prepared for anything. You never know what Soke is going to do next. Everything is subject to change at any time.

 

[Kreth]

I can hear the comments now, "Gyokku ryu *again*? We just did that a few years ago..."
Don, I know you don't want to post specifics, but could you give some general insights as to how the focus is different this time around?

Jeff

 

[Don Roley]

Don, I know you don't want to post specifics, but could you give some general insights as to how the focus is different this time around?

I have not gone to Honbu or Ayase all that much so far. But it seems like a lot of Hatsumi's classes and how he does things. The shihan show a kata and then he shows some varients based on one aspect of it that I guess he feels we need to work on. But there are a lot of aspects to even one kata and each session I have been to has been a great insight, even though we may have gone over the same kata several times before.

In short, we are really, really going into a deep investigation of what makes up the foundation for Gyokko ryu IMO.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

For anyone who thinks there is no bojutsu to be found within Gyokko ryu, I can tell you we have a video tape from a Daikomyosai in the early 90's at the dojo called exactly that - Gyokko ryu Bojutsu. Brin Morgan, Lubos Pokorny and Richard Van Donk are among the westerners to appear on it.

 

[Kreth]

In short, we are really, really going into a deep investigation of what makes up the foundation for Gyokko ryu IMO.

Sounds interesting. Unfortunately, with my job situation, it doesn't look like I'll be in Japan anytime soon. Luckily though, I have a friend who'll be over at the end of this month, and I'm planning to train with him when he gets back. So hopefully I'll be able to get a little taste of what's going on...

Jeff

 

[Don Roley]

For anyone who thinks there is no bojutsu to be found within Gyokko ryu, I can tell you we have a video tape from a Daikomyosai in the early 90's at the dojo called exactly that - Gyokko ryu Bojutsu.

I have and am very familiar with the contents of that video.

The thing you should be aware of is that there is a lot of specualtion that the boss basically just used a bo with the strategies, angles, etc of the Gyokko ryu and that there may not be any techniques for the use from the Gyokko ryu per se. If you watch the video you will note that there are no katas demonstrated, nor names given for techniques. Hatsumi is a master of both the way a bo is used and the Gyokko ryu, so it would be child's play for him to use a bo in the manner of the Gyokko ryu even without any formal techniques from that school- just as I have used things like ASP batons in a Bujinkan member without any formal ASP kata.

The instruction that the shihan I mentioned are doing are for Kukishin bojutsu and at least one has said he does not know if there are Gyokko ryu bojutsu stuff or not. All he can say is that he has not seen any formal techniques labeled as such.

So the mystery remains and most of us just try to pick up what we can.

 

[Dale Seago]

I have and am very familiar with the contents of that video.

The thing you should be aware of is that there is a lot of specualtion that the boss basically just used a bo with the strategies, angles, etc of the Gyokko ryu and that there may not be any techniques for the use from the Gyokko ryu per se. If you watch the video you will note that there are no katas demonstrated, nor names given for techniques. Hatsumi is a master of both the way a bo is used and the Gyokko ryu, so it would be child's play for him to use a bo in the manner of the Gyokko ryu even without any formal techniques from that school- just as I have used things like ASP batons in a Bujinkan member without any formal ASP kata.

That was my impression of what was going on. Additionally, that tape only represents Day 1 of 3 days of bo training and is the only "Gyokko flavored" bo stuff (the other two days were not) I've been exposed to for that entire year.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

I'm not sure I understand why kata listed in a densho is the only acceptable proof of a set of technical skills to actually exist within a specific ryuha. For instance, while the kusarifundo techniques in the Bujinkan may come from Masaki ryu, Togakure ryu has its own take on a similar flexible weapon, namely the sanshaku tefuki (three-foot cloth, often loaded with a heavy object like a rock or piece of metal), the use of which was demonstrated by Mrs. Hatsumi on "The Ninja Art of Grand Master Hatsumi". Just because there may not be any specific kata, does that mean that the knowledge isn't to be found at all?

 

[Don Roley]

Just because there may not be any specific kata, does that mean that the knowledge isn't to be found at all?

True, but what proof is there to state that there is such knowledge with such certainty? The facts might be either that Hatsumi just did it on the spot because he is just a master of both skills, or that there are specific skills that exist in the Gyokko ryu which none of the shihan seem to know about and to which there are no names or katas. I suspect the former, but there really is not enough evidence IMO to state anything with any sort of certainty.

 

[Blind]

just as I have used things like ASP batons in a Bujinkan member without any formal ASP kata.

I hesitate to ask, but did the Bujinkan member enjoy the ASP baton being used IN him? What kind of non-formal kata are we talking about? Or was it a typi?

 

[Don Roley]

I hesitate to ask, but did the Bujinkan member enjoy the ASP baton being used IN him? What kind of non-formal kata are we talking about? Or was it a typi?

Well you see there is this guy who trains in the same dojo I do here in Japan that is really into that type of thing.. :moon:

It is times like this that I wish we had more time to edit our posts. Obviously I meant to say in the Bujinkan manner , even though there are a few Bujinkan members I would love to use an ASP on (or in.)

On a side note, I just got a message from someone who believed that he saw some Gyokko ryu bojutsu being taught in Japan. But he is incorrect. There are actually two seperate levels to the Kukishin ryu bojutsu. I was taught the one that you do not normally see a few years ago and now another shihan is teaching it as well.

 

[MisterMike]

Is this book applicable to Kukishin Ryu Bo training in the Bijinkan?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/4901619020/103-6152071-7609457?_encoding=UTF8&v=glance

TIA,
Mike

 

[Bujin]

There are actually two seperate levels to the Kukishin ryu bojutsu. I was taught the one that you do not normally see a few years ago and now another shihan is teaching it as well.

Mr Roley,

Are you referring to two different levels within the "Kukishin ryu" bojutsu or two different styles; Kukishinden ryu bojutsu (Takagi yoshin ryu related) and Kukishin ryu bojutsu (Kukishin ryu related)? I never figured our which is which and how they are connected (if connected more than by almost identical name). Is it perhaps similar to the two different sets of hanbo/jojutsu, both related to the "kukishin" word ?


Best regards / Richard M

 

[Dale Seago]

Well you see there is this guy who trains in the same dojo I do here in Japan that is really into that type of thing.. :moon:

I should remind you of a certain state motto: "Don't mess with Texas". :boing2:

 

[Shogun]

This may be slightly off topic, but at the Aric Keith seminar, he mentioned that Gyokko ryu was never intented for fighting, self defense, etc, and is a Budo style designed for "polishing the heart". what did he mean by this?

Kyle

 

[Dale Seago]

This may be slightly off topic, but at the Aric Keith seminar, he mentioned that Gyokko ryu was never intented for fighting, self defense, etc, and is a Budo style designed for "polishing the heart". what did he mean by this?

Kyle

Interesting statement. I know Aric; and I've known his teacher, Bill Atkins, literally since Bill began training in the Bujinkan within weeks after I began. I've never heard either of them say anything like that.

Not doubting you by any means, just not sure about the derivation of the comment.

 

[Shogun]

Yeah, it was a little confusing, but he said it. He was talking about the techniques in Kyokko ryu, and talked about how, while they could be considered effective, and were derived from combat techniques, the art is more comparable to Judo in which the aim is to "polish the heart", and make a practitioner a better person.

just curious if this has any truth.

 

[Don Roley]

Are you referring to two different levels within the "Kukishin ryu" bojutsu or two different styles; Kukishinden ryu bojutsu (Takagi yoshin ryu related) and Kukishin ryu bojutsu (Kukishin ryu related)?

I believe the former. But my memory is not perfect, nor are my notes I fear. I can tell you that you can find some of the techniques being demonstrated at the end of the bojutsu tape/DVD from Quest.

Is this book applicable to Kukishin Ryu Bo training in the Bijinkan?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...g=UTF8&v=glance

Not totally unrelated, but there are some things I could warn you about. IMO, the new book from Kodansha by the boss is much better. But nothing will truely prepare you 100 percent for the stuff he does this year.

I should remind you of a certain state motto: "Don't mess with Texas".

No Texans here right now. "Hotpants" got tired of me beating up on him and went home years ago. But the guy from New Zealand really seem to miss sheep while living here.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

This may be slightly off topic, but at the Aric Keith seminar, he mentioned that Gyokko ryu was never intented for fighting, self defense, etc, and is a Budo style designed for "polishing the heart". what did he mean by this?

Seems odd, given that the kuden of Gyokko ryu tells us that Cho Gyokko killed eight Shaolin monks using only his fingers and toes...

 

[Jay Bell]

I can see Aric's angle on the statement, at least I believe so. Gyokko ryu can be viewed as a physical representation of esoteric buddhism (or was originally). Ten ryaku uchu gassho in buddhism is about polishing the heart....a promise to the heavens, for example...not so much a "martial" application.