1st Dan Testing Fee

[Kacey]

What we charge depends on how many students are testing, who the testing instructor is, and how far away s/he comes from - testing fees have to cover the testing instructor's expenses and most come from out of state - although we usually hold a seminar as well, to help off-set the costs. It's usually around $125-150 for I Dan. If students want an ITF certificate, that's an extra $90.

 

[mrhnau]

That right there is about the norm in the community, the more expensive area's around me get up to $10,000 for a KKW certificate and they get to open a satelite school for the head instructor. That just kills me but still people do it. God Bless the all mighty dollar.

Dang, I'm in the wrong business! $10k? Good lord!

 

[YoungMan]

Our organization charges about $250 for a 1st Dan test. However, having said that, let me explain why.
First, considering our GM's credentials, the testing fee is well worth it. This isn't some self-created grandmaster who creates his own organization and ranked himself through that, this is the real deal.
Second, considering that everything we do to put the testings on and take care of guests and judges (myself included) is top of the line, it's well worth it. That stuff's not free or cheap, and the greater fee only serves to allow us to have a setting in which students are proud to be part. You can have a test in a middle school gymnasium, or you can have it in a college gym and take the judges out to a gourmet restaurant. Your choice. Personally, I'd rather pay the extra money and get top of the line treatment. You get what you pay for, and our GM is not rich from testing fees. Oriental and Taekwondo custom dicates you treat your judges well or they will not return. That includes meals and drinks.
Now, if you want to charge students nothing to test, or the minimum, and get a bare bones test that no one feels proud to be part of, that's your perogative.

 

[Fluffy]

I'm (Snohomish TKD) at $75 for Rec Black belt (Jr. Belt) and $200 for 1st Dan. And that comes with Hwa Rang TKD certification. I know it's not as big as an WTF/KKW cert but it's good enough for my students - because I say so. Like my instructor says I'm a 5th Dan, and that's good enough for me.

Maybe I should raise prices.......

 

[matt.m]

Wow, our 1st Dan test are 120. If you want KKW, not mandatory but a just beacuse kind of deal then I believe that is only 75 bucks for 1st dan.

500 just seems a bit much to me.

 

[YoungMan]

I'm (Snohomish TKD) at $75 for Rec Black belt (Jr. Belt) and $200 for 1st Dan. And that comes with Hwa Rang TKD certification. I know it's not as big as an WTF/KKW cert but it's good enough for my students - because I say so. Like my instructor says I'm a 5th Dan, and that's good enough for me.

Maybe I should raise prices.......

So basically you're saying you are a 5th Dan because your Instructor said you are 5th Dan. Am I reading that right?
I always tell black belts "you are X Dan because other Master Instructors (4th Dan and above) who don't care whether you pass or fail and have no vested interest in seeing you promote said you are X Dan".

 

[Twin Fist]

young man,
if you LIKE the way your school does it, then good for you.

I would never participate in that sort of thing, but thats just me.

I myself wouldnt want to test anywhere other than my school, where i put in the hours sweating, bleeding, teaching and learning. And I was plenty proud to test there. A high school gym? whats special about that? My dojo is special. Thats where I put the hours in. A high school gym is just a place.

My testing board was my instructors, their instructor, and the other BB's from my school who were at least the rank I was testing for or higher. Thats plenty good enough for me, They are my brothers and sisters in martial arts, and their opinion is the only one I care about. They sat on the testing board not because I paid them, but because that is part of their DUTY, part of the responsibility of being Dan rank holders.

I would never accept payment to sit on a testing board.

We went out to eat after my test, they paid for my meal.

Diffferent strokes for different folks I guess.

 

[igillman]

For our $500 we get a KKW certificate in a plastic frame and a black belt. Our GM has his own federation that used to go straight to the KKW but now his federation (sound like Star Trek doesn't it) falls under the USA TKD people (who do the USA Olympic stuff) and they fall under the KKW.

We were charged about $100 for 1st Dan (maybe $150) when it was just us getting a KKW certificate. Now it is $500. The USA TKD stuff seems to have a bit of overhead or our GM has seen an opportunity to raise prices.

Our testing is $50 for coloured belts (low Gups) and then about $70 for higher Gups (roughly). Now I have a green belt I may stop testing and let the kids go on up to save money. We test every 2 months so it adds another $25 per month per person onto the regular monthly fee (I have 3 kids in it). I am in it for the fitness anyway so the colour of my belt doesn't matter too much, I just wanted a darker belt to make it look like I have been there a while.

 

[jim777]

At our school it's $300 dollars. All tests up to BB are $15, and include the new belt. For your $300 you get the test (obviously), and some money I'm sure goes to the members on the panel of judges to offset their travel costs and such. It is an 8 to 10 hour test, so I honestly don't have a problem with taking care of those judges. You also get your embroidered belt and a new black dobok, and a fairly large crystal trophy which while completely unnecessary, looks fantastic next to the bowflex down in the basement or on your mantle in the livingroom. I honestly don't think anyone comes out making money on these tests, though obviously some of the judges get compensated (again, justly and fairly in my opinion) for their time. Our school is not for profit, and if they did end up with left over cash from these tests it would feed back into the summer break party/barbecue (free for students and families) or the Christmas party (same deal, free again).

jim

 

[granfire]

I really need to print this thread out and show it to the parents that complain about leaving too much money at our school! (I still would like to know what all is involved with an ITF/KKW certificate to varant the cost)

And considering the shock when learned the Sr master in our area was charging 50$ more for BB tests then my instructor...but he is in another town, different market. but since we are talking organizational fees...I am scratching my head.

(and what do you test for 8-10 hours?!)


Oh, the belt gets darker over time anyway, just don wash it!

 

[Twin Fist]

(and what do you test for 8-10 hours?!)

Yeah, thats my question too. Even a complex system like Kenpo doesnt take that long.

 

[jim777]

A number of things add into the length of the test, including fighting all of the black belts who show up (24 showed up at the last test) and a 5 mile run in the middle of the test it break it up. To be honest, the test itself is sort of a secret, so I wouldn't want to ruin it for any lower belts in our school who might just pop in here and see it, but there isn't a whole lot of just standing around

 

[Twin Fist]

5 mile run in the middle of the test?

secret test?

no thanks

 

[jim777]

5 mile run in the middle of the test?

secret test?

no thanks

We are not a McDojo. We simply do not advertise the contents of the test to our students before the test.

Yes, there's a 5 mile run in the middle of the test. The run is through a fairly heavily wooded area as well, not on a nice neat track. Without giving too much away, some of the sparring of black belts you will definitely have to do on your test may just jump out of a tree in front of you. Maybe, possibly, 3 at a time.
Surprise! :lol: Better hope it isn't raining (because we test in November).

There is also quite a lot of Hapkido as well in our curriculum, and a Hapkido portion is included on every promotion test. All of your pushups (100) situps (200) and Hapkido are done outside, in the concrete parking lot or in the field next to the school, depending on the weather. Rain means the field (see above about hoping). This is definitely the type of test that you are not guaranteed to pass though most do. It will also likely be the most physically demanding day of your life if you haven't served in the military. There's no secret to that part of it. What you are told coming into the test is that it will take you about 8 hours, more if there are more than 2 or 3 people testing. You are told about the outside Hapkido, pushups and situps (it's well know to the white belts), but not about the run. That's part of the 'secret'. Your written paper and its length is part of the secret. Reading it to the assembled crowd is part of the secret. There's more as well. If that all sounds like it's really just too much for you, or you believe your BB test should be a lot easier, shorter, or less strenuous, or whatever, there are lots of places around that will give you a black belt with a lot less effort and preparation required of you. We consider getting a BB from our school a point of pride, but it isn't for everyone. And, it's the same test for all, whether you're a 14 year old boy or a 62 year old woman. The test is the test end of story, and hasn't changed since the early 80's.
Again, our school charges $2 dollars a class, and there isn't a monthly fee. There are no association fees, contracts or dues. Student to instructor ratio is about 3 to 1, and it is non-profit; run by BB volunteers out of a donated 4-H barn. We are currently turning away all students under 16 (unless they are family members of current students) because we simply don't have the room to expand any further.

jim

 

[Kacey]

So basically you're saying you are a 5th Dan because your Instructor said you are 5th Dan. Am I reading that right?
I always tell black belts "you are X Dan because other Master Instructors (4th Dan and above) who don't care whether you pass or fail and have no vested interest in seeing you promote said you are X Dan".

If I am reading Fluffy correctly, he, like myself, is more concerned with the opinion of the person who actually tested and promoted him than he is with a certificate from an organization that knows nothing about him except that his instructor and/or testing instructor signed a form stating that he has demonstrated the requirements for a particular rank.

I could get ITF certification if I wanted to - but no one in the ITF knows me - my instructor, however, and his instructor, do know me, will be present at my testing, and will be watching to determine if I am truly representative of the next rank I test for. It is their signatures on any certificates I have received in the past or might receive in the future that matter to me - not the stamped signature of a person at the head of an organization who doesn't know me and wouldn't recognize me if he saw me. Organizational certificates are great if you want to compete at a level that requires them, or if you want them for other reasons of your own - but it is your instructor and his/her seniors who know you, and know personally if you have met the required standards, and it is, therefore, their signatures that are important - at least to me.

 

[Twin Fist]

Jim,
I am not saying that what you do is bad. Just like the guy that pays $500 for his BB test, if you WANT to do that, and you are happy with it, more power to you.

There is a huge difference between a McDojo and boot camp. I myself dont think a Dan test if the time for push ups and sit ups or running. I figure, if you are not in shape, I would know that, and I wouldnt let you test in the first place. So there is no need to demonstrate your ability to do push ups on the test. In 24 years, I have never heard of a belt test structured the way your group does yours. If it works for you, fine.

This is just my opinion, your milage may vary, do whatever works for you.

 

[YoungMan]

young man,
if you LIKE the way your school does it, then good for you.

I would never participate in that sort of thing, but thats just me.

I myself wouldnt want to test anywhere other than my school, where i put in the hours sweating, bleeding, teaching and learning. And I was plenty proud to test there. A high school gym? whats special about that? My dojo is special. Thats where I put the hours in. A high school gym is just a place.

My testing board was my instructors, their instructor, and the other BB's from my school who were at least the rank I was testing for or higher. Thats plenty good enough for me, They are my brothers and sisters in martial arts, and their opinion is the only one I care about. They sat on the testing board not because I paid them, but because that is part of their DUTY, part of the responsibility of being Dan rank holders.

I would never accept payment to sit on a testing board.

We went out to eat after my test, they paid for my meal.

Diffferent strokes for different folks I guess.

Twin Fists,

I don't mean to imply that judges (myself included) are monetarily compensated for judging. We aren't. We are compensated by being taken out to dinner at a nice restaurant, and having our meals and drinks paid for. This is Taekwondo custom and a way to ensure that good judges will agree to judge for you again. If I can't get good judges, I can't have a test because I can't judge my own students. I know some people do, but that's another topic. Sometimes judges who have driven quite a ways are repaid the cost of gas as well. But you don't make money judging, you do it to help students and support colleagues.
As for a college gym versus a middle school gym, it goes back to making testing memorable for students and making their support networks proud. You could hold it in a middle school gym, but a college or high school gymnasium seems more professional and memorable for something like this.

 

[Twin Fist]

YoungMan
I get what you are saying. It makes sense if you are not testing your own students. If you are getting other BB's to come in from out of town, then at least paying their expenses makes perfect sense.

it may well be a TKD tradition, I am not sure. My TKD line hasnt had a korean in it since Jhoon Rhee in 1960.

 

[Sukerkin]

I'm intrigued by the major differences in how it seems the TKD organisation runs than the JSA world does.

Like Kacey said above, the signatures on the certificates matter just as much as the stamp. So my handful of Pounds gets me the approval of my sensei (who happens to be the highest ranked of our organisation in the country), the counter-signature of the head of IMAF-UK and the oversight approval of IMAF-Japan. These are not fly-by-night McDojo organisations, far from it.

Why is it then that my grading costs are trivial and those mentioned above are astronomical?

If I am fortunate enough to be eligible to grade over yodan before my sensei passes on, then it might get to be more expensive as I shall have to travel to mainland Europe to grade in front of some of the leading lights of the organisation. Even then, the primay costs will be travel, not fees.

 

[granfire]

roflmao, I do not run 5 miles - ever. I hate running and as I get older my knees are less forgiving...I guess to each his own...but since I am having requirements of class attendance for the 4 month prior to my grading I think it's fair that I leave my crunches and push-ups in class...