Who is creating in shaolin kempo or in the rest of the ohana?

[marlon]

Love this post. Would you consider the “four ways of fighting” a core principle? Using the four ways as a guide post or principle one can distinguish techniques that fits SKK and those that do not. It will also inform bunkai and understanding in forms. My search all those years ago that inspired this thread and brought me further along the path.

Yes! The four ways of fighting is a foundational principle of SKK the same way the AK = speed hands

 

[marlon]

SKK principle

37. Simultaneously manipulate the adversary's upper and lower body.

This is one of the fundamentals of SKK. Once you recognize this part you begin to see it in most “techniques” and it changes how you view and think about the applications of your forms. This is truly how to “kempo-ize” traditional kata and make our practice exceedingly practical.

 

[marlon]

Draw in close and use the continuous destructive motion off a powerful yet mobile base with multiple strikes, while simultaneously manipulating the opponents upper, lower body mass and structural integrity until the threat is over.

 

[marlon]

I apologize in advance, as I didn't intend this post to be so lengthy. I see what you're saying. I don't think I'm being clear with my definition of foundation principles or philosophies of an art. This is what I mean is this:

Arnis = Stickfighting
Bjj = Grappling
Ed Parker's Kenpo = Speed Hands
Aikido = Using a person's momentum against them
TKD = Kicking
AikiJutsu = Joint manipulation
Krav Maga = Simultaneous block/attack and aggressive counter attack
Michael Janich Knife Fighting = Tendon attacks
Shaolin Kempo = ?

from the Villari poster that was in most of the Villari dojos at one point it is clear that the « the four ways of fighting » obviously a good deal of marketing but still very clear of the foundation principles

As a result of Grandmaster Villari's varied wealth of experience and his dedication to seeking the ultimate fighting system, he realized each fighting system offered something both unique and special, and each also had its glaring weaknesses that would make a fighter vulnerable. After studying and mastering many different styles and ways of fighting, Grandmaster Villari realized that there were only four ways of fighting.

1. With your hands (punching, striking -- both open and closed-handed) or use of any part of the arms, elbows, forearms, etc.

2. Kicking (with the foot, knee or leg).

3. Felling -- that is to knock an opponent off his feet by throwing, tripping, pulling, pushing, shoving or scooping him.

4. Grappling -- the secret of grappling is to always have control of your opponent by either wrestling, holding, breaking or locking bones or joints against nerve centers, thereby directing your opponent by delivering excruciating and incapacitating pain.

Grandmaster Villari finally discovered that the ultimate in self defense lay not in one way or style of fighting, but by combining the Four Ways Of Fighting. He then devised and developed ways to integrate these methods of fighting into one, thereby eliminating any and all weaknesses and vulnerabilities. This is the CORE, THEORY, and METHOD behind Villari's devastating and impregnable art of Shaolin Kempo Karate.



I know that I am generalizing those principles but I think they define my intention. The OP commented about how difficult it can be to grow within the art of SKK and about the creation of technique. My addition to the comment was that it can be difficult to grow within SKK long-term specifically because the art is a hybrid art and isn't built around a core foundational principle. If a BJJ practitioner wanted to come up with a new BJJ move he/she wouldn't build a technique around doing multiple kicks. That is not the foundational principle of BJJ. On the same thought, a new TKD technique won't necessarily be based on groundfighting. SKK is such a cool art because it lends itself into bringing other techniques from other arts and they can fit right in. SKK, however, does not have its own foundational principle that is consistent throughout the art. You can't bring in BJJ or Arnis and call it Shaolin Kempo, but you can teach those arts in an SKK environment because it doesn't clash with SKK. Again, it's not a knock against SKK; SKK is a hybrid art and the great thing about a hybrid art is that it lends itself to the ability to bring in outside techniques and most will fit right in.

When talking about getting inside and doing the most damage, the SKK techniques are not based on that principle throughout the system; meaning that the individual techniques were not developed with that principle in mind. That behavior is based on individual instructor's philosophies. I agree whole-heartily with that principle, as I am a Krav Maga guy as well, but SKK doesn't teach that throughout the core techniques of the system. That's not what SKK is known for. Not being built on a particular core foundational principle can make it difficult to develop new techniques that are consistent to an art's philosophy, but it can be very easy to bring in outside techniques from other arts. I know that I am repeating myself within this post, and I apologize for that. I just want to make sure that my explanation is clear.

Going back to the OP's original post, I remember when some instructors tried to teach uniform Kempo Punch Techniques. They were attempting to develop a numerical system of remembering Kempo techniques but not every instructor taught them because they were based on those individual instructor's favorite techniques. Some of those Kempo techniques were taken from traditional Karate, Ed Parker's Kenpo, the Hung Gar system, and some were just made up by the individual instructors. They were completely random techniques taught without a constant philosophy in mind. The point being is that there was not a core foundational principle that SKK requires when developing new techniques. I don't know if that numerical Kempo Technique system stuck long-term, as I was gone by then. And, again, to be fair, my SKK is based on the 1st and 2nd generation of the SKK system. I know that there was another split within the dojos, so there may be a bunch of new techniques that were added to the individual SKK dojos now.

Going back to the OP's original comment, a lot of SKK instructors would go out and learn from other arts and bring back techniques. As a hybrid art, SKK allows for that. I don't think Grandmaster Villari would endorse that necessarily, but the system itself allows for that ability. That is one of the great aspects of SKK. It allows for growth outside of the art and whatever is brought in most likely won't seem foreign to the students. Those techniques wouldn't be included in the core SKK system, but it makes it easy for individual instructors to do so for the benefit of themselves and their students.

Again, I'm sorry for repeating so much in this post.

 

[marlon]

I apologize in advance, as I didn't intend this post to be so lengthy. I see what you're saying. I don't think I'm being clear with my definition of foundation principles or philosophies of an art. This is what I mean is this:

Arnis = Stickfighting
Bjj = Grappling
Ed Parker's Kenpo = Speed Hands
Aikido = Using a person's momentum against them
TKD = Kicking
AikiJutsu = Joint manipulation
Krav Maga = Simultaneous block/attack and aggressive counter attack
Michael Janich Knife Fighting = Tendon attacks
Shaolin Kempo = ?

I know that I am generalizing those principles but I think they define my intention. The OP commented about how difficult it can be to grow within the art of SKK and about the creation of technique. My addition to the comment was that it can be difficult to grow within SKK long-term specifically because the art is a hybrid art and isn't built around a core foundational principle. If a BJJ practitioner wanted to come up with a new BJJ move he/she wouldn't build a technique around doing multiple kicks. That is not the foundational principle of BJJ. On the same thought, a new TKD technique won't necessarily be based on groundfighting. SKK is such a cool art because it lends itself into bringing other techniques from other arts and they can fit right in. SKK, however, does not have its own foundational principle that is consistent throughout the art. You can't bring in BJJ or Arnis and call it Shaolin Kempo, but you can teach those arts in an SKK environment because it doesn't clash with SKK. Again, it's not a knock against SKK; SKK is a hybrid art and the great thing about a hybrid art is that it lends itself to the ability to bring in outside techniques and most will fit right in.

When talking about getting inside and doing the most damage, the SKK techniques are not based on that principle throughout the system; meaning that the individual techniques were not developed with that principle in mind. That behavior is based on individual instructor's philosophies. I agree whole-heartily with that principle, as I am a Krav Maga guy as well, but SKK doesn't teach that throughout the core techniques of the system. That's not what SKK is known for. Not being built on a particular core foundational principle can make it difficult to develop new techniques that are consistent to an art's philosophy, but it can be very easy to bring in outside techniques from other arts. I know that I am repeating myself within this post, and I apologize for that. I just want to make sure that my explanation is clear.

Going back to the OP's original post, I remember when some instructors tried to teach uniform Kempo Punch Techniques. They were attempting to develop a numerical system of remembering Kempo techniques but not every instructor taught them because they were based on those individual instructor's favorite techniques. Some of those Kempo techniques were taken from traditional Karate, Ed Parker's Kenpo, the Hung Gar system, and some were just made up by the individual instructors. They were completely random techniques taught without a constant philosophy in mind. The point being is that there was not a core foundational principle that SKK requires when developing new techniques. I don't know if that numerical Kempo Technique system stuck long-term, as I was gone by then. And, again, to be fair, my SKK is based on the 1st and 2nd generation of the SKK system. I know that there was another split within the dojos, so there may be a bunch of new techniques that were added to the individual SKK dojos now.

Going back to the OP's original comment, a lot of SKK instructors would go out and learn from other arts and bring back techniques. As a hybrid art, SKK allows for that. I don't think Grandmaster Villari would endorse that necessarily, but the system itself allows for that ability. That is one of the great aspects of SKK. It allows for growth outside of the art and whatever is brought in most likely won't seem foreign to the students. Those techniques wouldn't be included in the core SKK system, but it makes it easy for individual instructors to do so for the benefit of themselves and their students.

Again, I'm sorry for repeating so much in this post.

From the Villari marketing poster:


As a result of Grandmaster Villari's varied wealth of experience and his dedication to seeking the ultimate fighting system, he realized each fighting system offered something both unique and special, and each also had its glaring weaknesses that would make a fighter vulnerable. After studying and mastering many different styles and ways of fighting, Grandmaster Villari realized that there were only four ways of fighting.

1. With your hands (punching, striking -- both open and closed-handed) or use of any part of the arms, elbows, forearms, etc.

2. Kicking (with the foot, knee or leg).

3. Felling -- that is to knock an opponent off his feet by throwing, tripping, pulling, pushing, shoving or scooping him.

4. Grappling -- the secret of grappling is to always have control of your opponent by either wrestling, holding, breaking or locking bones or joints against nerve centers, thereby directing your opponent by delivering excruciating and incapacitating pain.

Grandmaster Villari finally discovered that the ultimate in self defense lay not in one way or style of fighting, but by combining the Four Ways Of Fighting. He then devised and developed ways to integrate these methods of fighting into one, thereby eliminating any and all weaknesses and vulnerabilities. This is the CORE, THEORY, and METHOD behind Villari's devastating and impregnable art of Shaolin Kempo Karate.