Were ninjas even real?

[Jared Traveler]

Where ninjas even real? Did they exist?

 

[Cynik75]

Yes.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.

 

[hoshin1600]

No

 

[drop bear]

I think they were a job essentially. So when soldiers had to crawl around doing nefarious stuff. They were ninjas.

 

[GojuTommy]

Yes ninja/shinobi were real.
All a ninja was, was a spy/saboteur.
All spies/saboteurs will be trained in some form of combat armed and unarmed, but if you were a ninja and needing to actually fight you probably messed up.

 

[Buka]

We have topless female ninjas out here, you can even Google it.

Be afraid, be very afraid.

 

[drop bear]

We have topless female ninjas out here, you can even Google it.

Be afraid, be very afraid.

The boobjukan?

 

[Buka]

The boobjukan?

Indeed.

 

[Char Shinobi]

I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.

What is grand master Kim doing I haven't been on this site for a few years

 

[Bujingodai]

Gold ole Radford. Ashida Kim, the high water mark of Ninjutsu. You know what I'd be interested in what he was up to these days too. I will give him this, he was interesting.

 

[Dirty Dog]

What is grand master Kim doing I haven't been on this site for a few years

That depends on which GM Kim you're talking about. It's a remarkably common name in Korea.

 

[Gyakuto]

It depends who’s asking 😉

 

[Bujingodai]

That depends on which GM Kim you're talking about. It's a remarkably common name in Korea.

Well, I was talking about the fake one.

 

[Gyakuto]

A very old magazine I have with a very young famous Ninja on the cover!

 

[Hot Lunch]

Yes, but they didn't wear the black suits that we all know and love. They simply wore plain clothes that prevented them from standing out.

That black suit was actually worn by stagehands in Japanese theater. In fact, in alot of anime about ninja, the high-ranking members of the clan are dressed as kabuki. I think it might be a nod towards the stagehands and the kabuki they were employed by.

 

[Bushidojeff]

Yes, but they didn't wear the black suits that we all know and love. They simply wore plain clothes that prevented them from standing out.

That black suit was actually worn by stagehands in Japanese theater. In fact, in alot of anime about ninja, the high-ranking members of the clan are dressed as kabuki. I think it might be a nod towards the stagehands and the kabuki they were employed by.

 

[Bushidojeff]

Much of Japanese Budo history is rooted in ancient myths and legends similar to ancient Greeks. I started training at age 14 in 1979. So of course, I took a deep dive when I first heard about Ninja. I read everything. Then I went to college to study history and was also trained in doing actual research.

I also have had many conversations with career American serviceman who spent their 20 years stationed in Okinawa who studied classical Okinawan Te and Kobudo. There has always been controversial debate on the actual history of Okinawan Te within Ryku Historical society. When asked why the common theme has always been, "Okinawan Karate "Masters" are great bullshitters. Do not be fooled by the movies." They love how the Karate kid has made them money from western karate students seeking true enlightenment from the gurus! They are the ones who fed the old narrative about these legendary farmers defeating Samuria with nothing but kicks, punches and farm tools.

This also goes on in Japan. Japanese love Samuria myths and legends just like we do. They eat up just like we do.
Samurai Fighting Arts



Free ebook on Google by Fumon Tanaka. Tanaka appears to be pacifying historians and believers in Ninjutsu at the same time. Tanaka and Hatsumi must be the greatest athletes in history with claims of 10th dans in every Japanese style of Budo.

Funny how Judo and JKA are not on the list. Both organizations operate similar to Academic Universities. If you have a purple belt from the JKA there is an official record.

Dr. Hatsumi’s teacher traveled on foot through Mongolia challenging Mongols to fights to the death.

I have friends who lived in Mongolia. They seem to have given up on death duels as their main sport. My friend said they only have one true obsession which is basketball.



I think it is time to give credit to the mastermind of creating the way of the Ninja.

I present Akira Kurosawa. One of the greatest film directors and story tellers in history. He was the pioneer of using age old mythological themes that movie people love.

George Lucas gives Kurosawa full credit for Star Wars. Lucas just changed the word Ninja to Sith Lord.

I call Bull **** Do on every Ninjutsu claim, whether from the West or Japan. This includes all Japanese Ninja organizations, diasoke shihan master splinter teachers and sellers of lies. This includes Hatsumi, The Mongolian Assassin and Stephen K Hayes. They made a fortune lselling fantasy. I have heard rumors that George Dillman wished he would have gotten into the racket.


I will leave it with Dr. Stephen Turnbull. The wests greatest Historian on Japanese Military History.

No pay wall.

https://digitalcommons.kennesaw.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1161&context=jgi

 

[Hot Lunch]

Much of Japanese Budo history is rooted in ancient myths and legends similar to ancient Greeks. I started training at age 14 in 1979. So of course, I took a deep dive when I first heard about Ninja. I read everything. Then I went to college to study history and was also trained in doing actual research.

I also have had many conversations with career American serviceman who spent their 20 years stationed in Okinawa who studied classical Okinawan Te and Kobudo. There has always been controversial debate on the actual history of Okinawan Te within Ryku Historical society. When asked why the common theme has always been, "Okinawan Karate "Masters" are great bullshitters. Do not be fooled by the movies." They love how the Karate kid has made them money from western karate students seeking true enlightenment from the gurus! They are the ones who fed the old narrative about these legendary farmers defeating Samuria with nothing but kicks, punches and farm tools.

This also goes on in Japan. Japanese love Samuria myths and legends just like we do. They eat up just like we do.
Samurai Fighting Arts



Free ebook on Google by Fumon Tanaka. Tanaka appears to be pacifying historians and believers in Ninjutsu at the same time. Tanaka and Hatsumi must be the greatest athletes in history with claims of 10th dans in every Japanese style of Budo.

Funny how Judo and JKA are not on the list. Both organizations operate similar to Academic Universities. If you have a purple belt from the JKA there is an official record.

Dr. Hatsumi’s teacher traveled on foot through Mongolia challenging Mongols to fights to the death.

I have friends who lived in Mongolia. They seem to have given up on death duels as their main sport. My friend said they only have one true obsession which is basketball.



I think it is time to give credit to the mastermind of creating the way of the Ninja.

I present Akira Kurosawa. One of the greatest film directors and story tellers in history. He was the pioneer of using age old mythological themes that movie people love.

George Lucas gives Kurosawa full credit for Star Wars. Lucas just changed the word Ninja to Sith Lord.

I call Bull **** Do on every Ninjutsu claim, whether from the West or Japan. This includes all Japanese Ninja organizations, diasoke shihan master splinter teachers and sellers of lies. This includes Hatsumi, The Mongolian Assassin and Stephen K Hayes. They made a fortune lselling fantasy. I have heard rumors that George Dillman wished he would have gotten into the racket.


I will leave it with Dr. Stephen Turnbull. The wests greatest Historian on Japanese Military History.

No pay wall.

https://digitalcommons.kennesaw.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1161&context=jgi

I don't think it's coincidental that the "ninja boom" occurred right after Bruce Lee's death. We have to remind ourselves that "Bruce Lee wasn't god," because when he spoke, his words may as well have been scripture.

Imagine what Bruce Lee would have said about it, had it occurred during his lifetime. I think the timing of the "ninja boom" was intentional.

 

[isshinryuronin]

I call Bull **** Do on every Ninjutsu claim

I agree, due to the fanciful representation of it thanks to the entertainment industry. Many jumped on the bandwagon to exploit the public's perception of ninjas being like some sort of Marvel superhero.

But there were ninjas who can be compared to covert/undercover CIA spies and assassins, only better trained (for their time). It was a family business with training starting from childhood, or I read pre-Bruce Lee. They had numerous tricks and skills which began the myth of magical powers even before movies were made.

I also have had many conversations with career American serviceman who spent their 20 years stationed in Okinawa who studied classical Okinawan Te and Kobudo. There has always been controversial debate on the actual history of Okinawan Te within Ryku Historical society. When asked why the common theme has always been, "Okinawan Karate "Masters" are great bullshitters.

I've heard the same thing - Okinawans are great storytellers. Being sort of the "backwoods" of Japan, their culture was rich in legend and superstition. Just as the Southern backwoods hill country Americans enjoy "tall tales" and getting one over visiting northern Yankees. the Okinawan masters had a whole flock of gullible American servicemen to awe.

Those first Americans who came back as black belts thought they were experts when actually they were only taught the basics. What bunkai they learned was largely BS. But they were satisfied with what they learned, and the karate masters got paid (much needed in post-war Okinawa) so everyone was happy. These karate stories, as well as those from a century ago, add some confusion, some fun and sometimes morals to TMA history.