On Cross-training and "Making Stuff Work" (with clips)

[dunc]

Hi
No it’s sparring a particular situation and / or technique
Eg you start in the mount and have to do your best to escape while the person on top tries to maintain the mount
Or you practice standing closed guard passes while your opponent tries to submit you
Etc

 

[drop bear]

Hi
Maybe we’re talking cross purposes
In my view and experience:
1. Specific sparring can be used to almost fully pressure test even the most dangerous techniques. So it’s entirely possible to incorporate this into Xkan training. Probably we agree on this?
2. Cross training is good (probably we agree), but the difference in rule sets and objectives can require a bit of navigation (I think we don’t agree on this?)
3. Trying out your techniques (for your objectives) on experienced folk from other styles is good as long as it’s done in a constructive, safe way (probably we agree?)

Sparring is specific sparring.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Sparring is specific sparring.

Could you expound on that, DB?

 

[dunc]

Sparring is specific sparring.

Sure, but I’m making the distinction between free sparring and specific sparring

 

[drop bear]

Could you expound on that, DB?

Sparring is always a refined version of fighting.

You are still creating a situation in free sparring.

And free sparring and situational sparring are complimentry.

The idea is I do a drill. Say double leg. He stands there I get the technique right.

He tries to defend I get the timing and nuances right.

Free sparring I learn how to put that together on an open playing field.

Now if I do the first two and then just bang away in sparring I am not training as efficiently as I could be. But quite often my success is better when I am doing something I know rather than something I am still grasping the concept of.

So I am still doing that situational drill. I am just adding more elements to it.

Which goes back to my point about why mma guys will put on a gi and roll.

 

[drop bear]

Sure, but I’m making the distinction between free sparring and specific sparring

Yeah and it is a detrimental distinction.

 

[noname]

Sparring is always a refined version of fighting.

You are still creating a situation in free sparring.

And free sparring and situational sparring are complimentry.

The idea is I do a drill. Say double leg. He stands there I get the technique right.

He tries to defend I get the timing and nuances right.

Free sparring I learn how to put that together on an open playing field.

Now if I do the first two and then just bang away in sparring I am not training as efficiently as I could be. But quite often my success is better when I am doing something I know rather than something I am still grasping the concept of.

So I am still doing that situational drill. I am just adding more elements to it.

Which goes back to my point about why mma guys will put on a gi and roll.

Free sparring and limited sparring are not equivalent, even though they are both restricted forms of fighting. Weapons work highlights the distinction, IMHO. A match where I'm only trying to thrust - and my opponent is only trying to defend against such - is going to be very different than a match where my attacks are not so limited.

Engage in such limited sparring long enough and one ends up distorting the lens through which one judges victory. It was by way of such protracted limitation that classical swordplay morphed in to modern fencing (which are two very different beasts, despite that one is simply a more limited form of the other).

 

[noname]

The distinction between free sparring and limited sparring is useful, if for no other reason than that they are both distinct and useful. Limited sparring will let you work on the details. Free sparring lets you work on the big picture.

And neither alone is superior to both together.

 

[dunc]

Yeah and it is a detrimental distinction.

Can you elaborate a bit?
I appreciate that everything can be looked at on a continuum, but they are suitably differentiated to warrant a distinction I think
The are certainly used to achieve different things in training

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yeah and it is a detrimental distinction.

I don't think the distinction is necessarily detrimental. It could be applied detrimentally, but could also just be used to clarify two different (but overlapping) approaches. I don't use one of the terms, but when I have "free sparring", that's generally time to use the best stuff - what we already know works. That's a different approach - and the discussion is worth discussion - from sparring to see what we can manage with other tools in our bag.