Kong Soo Do's Rank

[Kong Soo Do]

In the interest of taking away possible points of contention; My initial rank in HKD comes from GM Dunn. His HKD rank is in no way connected with GM Won, it came after their association ended. GM Dunn chose to discontinue advancement in HKD and instead focused on his pursuits in TKD, and now KSD. I have chosen to continue in my HKD ranking, as I feel it lends support to what I offer in KSD, and now have surpassed GM Dunn (in this one area). Though I consider him my senior in the arts. I have continued with Master Nigel May who is under GM Julian Lim. I am currently a 5th Dan in HKD under Master May who is 6th. The HKD rank, to me, only supports the content of what I've chosen to put into the curriculum of MSK KSD. I don't generally advertise either my TKD or my HKD rank in favor of just stating my KSD rank. That's it in a nutshell.

 

[shesulsa]

In the interest of taking away possible points of contention; My initial rank in HKD comes from GM Dunn. His HKD rank is in no way connected with GM Won, it came after their association ended. GM Dunn chose to discontinue advancement in HKD and instead focused on his pursuits in TKD, and now KSD. I have chosen to continue in my HKD ranking, as I feel it lends support to what I offer in KSD, and now have surpassed GM Dunn (in this one area). Though I consider him my senior in the arts. I have continued with Master Nigel May who is under GM Julian Lim. I am currently a 5th Dan in HKD under Master May who is 6th. The HKD rank, to me, only supports the content of what I've chosen to put into the curriculum of MSK KSD. I don't generally advertise either my TKD or my HKD rank in favor of just stating my KSD rank. That's it in a nutshell.

Again.

You need to put this in The Great Debate so any debate that follows can be pursued there. THIS THREAD is about saving the TKD section, NOT ABOUT YOUR RANK.

In keeping with my own advice, I am going to report the post and ask the moderation team to split your post off and start a new thread in The Great Debate - where it belongs.

 

[miguksaram]

In the interest of taking away possible points of contention; My initial rank in HKD comes from GM Dunn. His HKD rank is in no way connected with GM Won, it came after their association ended. GM Dunn chose to discontinue advancement in HKD and instead focused on his pursuits in TKD, and now KSD. I have chosen to continue in my HKD ranking, as I feel it lends support to what I offer in KSD, and now have surpassed GM Dunn (in this one area). Though I consider him my senior in the arts. I have continued with Master Nigel May who is under GM Julian Lim. I am currently a 5th Dan in HKD under Master May who is 6th. The HKD rank, to me, only supports the content of what I've chosen to put into the curriculum of MSK KSD. I don't generally advertise either my TKD or my HKD rank in favor of just stating my KSD rank. That's it in a nutshell.

Thank you. I happen to be a friend of GM Lim. I helped him get to the bottom of some mishaps with a person who gave him false certificates from KKW. I have had the honor of working with him at a seminar that he held in my area a few years ago. We still keep in touch even today. He is a great guy and really good HKD and TKD person.

 

[d1jinx]

In the interest of taking away possible points of contention; My initial rank in HKD comes from GM Dunn. His HKD rank is in no way connected with GM Won, it came after their association ended. GM Dunn chose to discontinue advancement in HKD and instead focused on his pursuits in TKD, and now KSD. I have chosen to continue in my HKD ranking, as I feel it lends support to what I offer in KSD, and now have surpassed GM Dunn (in this one area). Though I consider him my senior in the arts. I have continued with Master Nigel May who is under GM Julian Lim. I am currently a 5th Dan in HKD under Master May who is 6th. The HKD rank, to me, only supports the content of what I've chosen to put into the curriculum of MSK KSD. I don't generally advertise either my TKD or my HKD rank in favor of just stating my KSD rank. That's it in a nutshell.

Okay, I am a sucker and took the bait. :angel:

curious,

with all due respect, where does your Ildokwan cert i read about fit in?

I had let it go, but since you couldn't and just had to start your own personal thread about it,

I figured why not.

not an attack, so please dont start the victim again. real question

with all due respect of course.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

I had let it go, but since you couldn't and just had to start your own personal thread about it,

I did not start this thread. I didn't even realize this had been moved here till I read Jeremy's post about some posts missing. this is the result of the thread being split and moved. As I mentioned, my post was to stamp out contention, not continue any contention.

with all due respect, where does your Ildokwan cert i read about fit in?

It doesn't fit in with any of this really. GM Davies was the founder of the WIF. I was once a member of the USA branch, I don't know if it is still active or not. GM Davies is a legite 8th Dan and well respected, some on the board know him or know of him. When I originally joined the WIF around 10 years ago I sent him all of my documentation/training history. At that time I/we simply used the term 'Taekido' as a label for what we taught i.e. TKD + HKD = Taekido. He chose to recognize me as an 8th Dan, based upon my credentials. After a time I requested that he downgrade me below GM Dunn to a 5th Dan. That was the same as my TKD rank at that time. I didn't want to be an 8th Dan, I personally felt that 8th was too high for someone in there late 30's (which I was at the time). He honored my request. I registered my TKD/HKD rank with the USA branch as well but only used the Taekido rank. I didn't agree with some things within the USA branch and, with many others, left (no reflection on GM Davies, he is top shelf).

I've still got my WIF certs somewhere I think. Haven't looked at them in years. I don't use that label anymore, we felt KSD was better for us (speaking for the schools here in the U.S. and Australia). When we switched to the use of KSD as a label I simply used my TKD rank as a cross-over rank to the knew art. I've gotten one promotion under that label, from my GM.

 

[d1jinx]

I did not start this thread. I didn't even realize this had been moved here till I read Jeremy's post about some posts missing. this is the result of the thread being split and moved. As I mentioned, my post was to stamp out contention, not continue any contention.

Ok. fair enough.

It doesn't fit in with any of this really. GM Davies was the founder of the WIF. I was once a member of the USA branch, I don't know if it is still active or not. GM Davies is a legite 8th Dan and well respected, some on the board know him or know of him. When I originally joined the WIF around 10 years ago I sent him all of my documentation/training history. At that time I/we simply used the term 'Taekido' as a label for what we taught i.e. TKD + HKD = Taekido. He chose to recognize me as an 8th Dan, based upon my credentials. After a time I requested that he downgrade me below GM Dunn to a 5th Dan. That was the same as my TKD rank at that time. I didn't want to be an 8th Dan, I personally felt that 8th was too high for someone in there late 30's (which I was at the time). He honored my request. I registered my TKD/HKD rank with the USA branch as well but only used the Taekido rank. I didn't agree with some things within the USA branch and, with many others, left (no reflection on GM Davies, he is top shelf).

I've still got my WIF certs somewhere I think. Haven't looked at them in years. I don't use that label anymore, we felt KSD was better for us (speaking for the schools here in the U.S. and Australia). When we switched to the use of KSD as a label I simply used my TKD rank as a cross-over rank to the knew art. I've gotten one promotion under that label, from my GM.

Ok.

thank you.

see. civil Q&A!

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Your welcome. If you have any additional questions then please ask.

 

[Tez3]

Can I just point out that if you hadn't used the apostrophe the title would have had a whole different meaning! :ultracool

There's only one valid question for martial artists....can you fight? :btg:

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Can I just point out that if you hadn't used the apostrophe the title would have had a whole different meaning! :ultracool

There's only one valid question for martial artists....can you fight? :btg:

I hadn't even thought about that, that's a good one

For the record, my last altercation i.e. put hands on real bad guy was last Monday. I need to retire

 

[ETinCYQX]

KSD...are you law enforcement? I get that impression and it would explain your number of altercations.

 

[Master Dan]

Can I just point out that if you hadn't used the apostrophe the title would have had a whole different meaning! :ultracool

There's only one valid question for martial artists....can you fight? :btg:

Well there you go( not in my opinion can you fight is important) but the only valid question is can you fight? Can you heal yourself can you heal others do you serve, protect and contribute rightly to your organization town community country? Those are supposed to be most important with fighting at the bottom and yeh your right not just fin but can you win? can you win in such a way that you have not hurt the person more than necessary can you win and have the skill to show little visible damage in court or are they going to have a very ugly face evidence of lots of blood permanent injury or can you dibilitate totally but the person can recover in minutes or hours?

 

[Kong Soo Do]

KSD...are you law enforcement? I get that impression and it would explain your number of altercations.

Yes sir. I'm on the downside of my career now. I'd like to take up gardening instead

 

[Steve]

Well there you go( not in my opinion can you fight is important) but the only valid question is can you fight?

There was an important qualifier that you left out. "for martial artists."

Can you heal yourself can you heal others

I'd say those are valid questions for people who are healers. But not necessarily martial artists (although one can be both).

do you serve, protect and contribute rightly to your organization town community country?

Serve and protect? Well, soldiers serve. Cops and other first responders help protect. But again, not necessarily martial artists. Contributions to the organization, town, community and country? I'd put that on EVERYONE.

Those are supposed to be most important

Says who? I'd say your questions are irrelevant to martial arts, although as I said, there are martial artists who have multiple interests.

with fighting at the bottom and yeh your right not just fin but can you win? can you win in such a way that you have not hurt the person more than necessary can you win and have the skill to show little visible damage in court or are they going to have a very ugly face evidence of lots of blood permanent injury or can you dibilitate totally but the person can recover in minutes or hours?

This is relevant, but open to debate. Some learn to incapacitate, others to kill. I guess that's more a function of your personality coupled with the style in which you choose to train.

 

[Master Dan]

There was an important qualifier that you left out. "for martial artists." I'd say those are valid questions for people who are healers. But not necessarily martial artists (although one can be both). Serve and protect? Well, soldiers serve. Cops and other first responders help protect. But again, not necessarily martial artists. Contributions to the organization, town, community and country? I'd put that on EVERYONE. Says who? I'd say your questions are irrelevant to martial arts, although as I said, there are martial artists who have multiple interests. This is relevant, but open to debate. Some learn to incapacitate, others to kill. I guess that's more a function of your personality coupled with the style in which you choose to train.

First its nto my opinion this is how I was taught by some of the greatest Martial Artists in the world, Martial Arts Hall of Fame World champions and some of this even printed in the tenants we practice. Also with regards to healing your self and others its very basic to many styles you have not traveld much

 

[Tez3]

Yes sir. I'm on the downside of my career now. I'd like to take up gardening instead

I'm retiring soon, not exactly my choice but the government is making cuts, we've ready had an overtime and recruitment ban on all sites except those funded by the American military.

My question 'can you fight' was only slightly facetious. I find a lot of this stuff about lineage, certificates etc tiring when all that is needed is a martial artist who can do the techniques competently. While it's interesting to know who your instructor's instructor was, it's only that... interesting. The proof is in the doing ... not the lineage and not the rank.
Perhaps in these days of political correctness we wrap up what we do in sheets of waffle to protect others sensebilities? Perhaps thats why certain people don't like MMA because it does what it says on the tin without any hiding what it is. We learn to defend ourselves, we learn to fight and to hurt people and while we shouldn't want to actually hurt people we should be prepared to and not pretend it's something Eastern and mystic with Grandmasters and such like to make it seem more acceptable.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

I'm sorry to hear about the cuts affecting you.

I agree with your comments on lineage/instructors and such.

 

[Steve]

First its nto my opinion

It is your opinion. Your instructors shared their opinions with you and you have come to agree with them. This doesn't make them facts. It makes them shared opinions. I think that chocolate ice cream is delicious. A lot of other people do, too. It's still an opinion.

Also with regards to healing your self and others its very basic to many styles you have not traveld much

You can integrate just about anything with anything else. It doesn't make them the same. Teaching healing to martial artists is an adjunct.

 

[Archtkd]

It doesn't fit in with any of this really. GM Davies was the founder of the WIF. I was once a member of the USA branch, I don't know if it is still active or not. GM Davies is a legite 8th Dan and well respected, some on the board know him or know of him. When I originally joined the WIF around 10 years ago I sent him all of my documentation/training history. At that time I/we simply used the term 'Taekido' as a label for what we taught i.e. TKD + HKD = Taekido. He chose to recognize me as an 8th Dan, based upon my credentials. After a time I requested that he downgrade me below GM Dunn to a 5th Dan. That was the same as my TKD rank at that time. I didn't want to be an 8th Dan, I personally felt that 8th was too high for someone in there late 30's (which I was at the time). He honored my request. I registered my TKD/HKD rank with the USA branch as well but only used the Taekido rank. I didn't agree with some things within the USA branch and, with many others, left (no reflection on GM Davies, he is top shelf).

I've still got my WIF certs somewhere I think. Haven't looked at them in years. I don't use that label anymore, we felt KSD was better for us (speaking for the schools here in the U.S. and Australia). When we switched to the use of KSD as a label I simply used my TKD rank as a cross-over rank to the knew art. I've gotten one promotion under that label, from my GM.

How does this certification by recognition work? I've seen a number of your posts where you mention so and so recognized you with this and this rank and certification, but there's no mention of actual training, especially with teachers who live significantly far from where you reside. I only ask because you've been outspoken and critical about taekwondo dan ranking and such, but you don't appear to have a problem with accumulating certificates from all sorts of places.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Is two what you call a number of certificates from distant instructors?

I'm not sure why you are unfamiliar with 'rank for recognition'. Just like the KKW relies upon the individual instructor in promotions, and recognizes them at a certain rank under their banner, so did the WIF.

I only ask because you've been outspoken and critical about taekwondo dan ranking and such, but you don't appear to have a problem with accumulating certificates from all sorts of places.

I have certificates from my instructor(s) in TKD/HKD (now called KSD) as well as my instructor-only L.E. specialty certificates from the regional training center where I was an adjunct instructor. And one from G.B. when I belonged to that organization.

I am critical of 'some' TKD/HKD promotional practices. And with good reason.

 

[Master Dan]

It is your opinion. Your instructors shared their opinions with you and you have come to agree with them. This doesn't make them facts. It makes them shared opinions. I think that chocolate ice cream is delicious. A lot of other people do, too. It's still an opinion.You can integrate just about anything with anything else. It doesn't make them the same. Teaching healing to martial artists is an adjunct.

True data can be interpreted in many ways but your analogy if chocloate is my point you only have to look at how much is the world wide sales of chocholate and the amount of people who say it taste good would in fact make that a fact in the majority.

You are young and have a very narrow experience espeacially internationally. typical example in one culture one art I was teaching just above the Arctic Circle there are many retired Koean martial artists in Alaska when one learned I was a master he came to me and wanted his hip fixed I looked at him and he said well in Korea any Judo club would know how to fix that he was right? Its ok for you to say I don't know don't want to learn but again making the broad statement for every one globaly every style? good luck with that as my Eskimo relatives would say when they want to get stubborn and not listen I HAVE NO EARS!!