Yiquan QiGong training with Eva Wong

[PHElwood]

Has anyone worked with Eva Wong? She will be doing a workshop in my area later this year, and I am considering going to learn something about Yiquan Qigong.

~PHElwood

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

I never met Eva Wong(I think Eastwind who is a member here met her)
Her writings are good and easier to follow then the more scholarly writings of Thomas Clearly and Livia Kohn.

Here is a site speaking about Eva Wong

http://ny.shambhala.org/program_details.php?id=16983&cid=208

This struck me as odd:

Xiantianwujimen was founded in the Song dynasty (circa 10th to 12th centuries) by Taoist sage Chen Xiyi, who is recognized as "the father of qigong

Here is Chen Xi Yi bio from Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chen_Tuan
This says he spent time at Wudang mountain.

And from Liu He Ba Fa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liuhebafa

He was associated with the Hua Shan Taoist Monastery

http://gb.taoism.org.hk/taoist-world-today/taoism-us/pg7-7-3-7.htm Livia Kohn is one of the best writers on Taoism in English.

I don't know if he really founded the Xiantianwujimen sect alot of groups claim him in their linerage.

Interesting note: In the book Chinese healing arts by William Berk(Eva Wong referenced Berk's book as a source for her book Shamabala guide to Taoism) he does give detail information about the sleeping exercise as taught by Chen Tuan(Chen Xi Yi)
Also William Berk calls the Yi jin jing(muscle tendon changing classic) the 12 Devas. Eva Wong according to this:

Chen Xiyi's sleeping and walking qigong

and this

the Twelve Devas Tendon-changing system in their entirety

http://ny.shambhala.org/program_details.php?id=16983&cid=208
I don't know if she learned from the book,Berk himself or some where else but it does make you wonder when you break down the history of it.

I know she supposely learned Liu He Ba Fa(which she praises as the best of the internal arts in her books) With the Taoist Tai chi society and Moy(who she thanks in one of her books)
I don't know her Yi Quan she says she is a 3rd generation of Yi Quan. It is kinda of pricey to train with her the information she is teaching is pretty common place.

 

[grydth]

A book titled, " Still as a Mountain, Powerful as Thunder" by Master Y.P. Dong came out in the early 1990's. Used copies are available on line at a very inexpensive price.

The author referred to the practice as Taoist I Chuan, and named the creator of this as one Grandmaster Wang Xiang Zhai. He had a system of 12 beginner's exercises, followed by meditation and specialized exercises. A nicely written and illustrated book, which I have not had trouble understanding (Rule: If I can understand it, any of you can).

From what little research I've been able to do, it appears Dong may have returned to China. I did not see any mention of the Taoist Tai Chi Society, which I would never personally want anything to do with. The sites I noted appear to indicate there are two or more main branches and that some may be associated with other arts.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Hey Grydth

You are correct that Wang Xiang Zhai is considered the creator of I chuan(Yi Quan) Y.P. Dong learned from Zhang Chang Xing and Yu Peng Xi according to the book Still as a Mountain powerful as Thunder.

Eva Wong does list the book as a reference in her Shambala guide to Taoism book.

I don't think Y.P. Dong was ever in the Taoist Tai Chi society.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Yiquan aka dachengquan

Wang Xiangzhai learned Xingyiquan from Guo Yunshen and later went and trained with a whole lot of other teachers in many other styles and then later developed Yiquan

There are no actual forms in Yiquan but it is based on many different standing practices many of which comes form Xingyiquan.

And I have never meant Eva Wong but I have read her translation of the Dragon Tiger Classic.

There is a rather good book on the standing practices of Yiquan by Lam Kam Chuen (another of Eastwinds teachers) Called Chi Kung way of power

Also here

 

[JDenver]

XUE SHENG -

Great links, thanks.

I find the Lam Ka Chuen pieces around Zhan Zhuang interesting too. Advocating listening to music or watching TV while in Standing postures??

I'd be curious to hear what others, more experience than myself, have to say about such a thing. It strikes me as odd. I find listening to the lower Dan Tian and feeling breath in your body very helpful.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

This is my opinion.
You do not want to be disturbed,disrupted during Qigong exercises.
If you are guiding Breath,Mind,Qi,Well just about anything you want to be focused on what you are doing. When you are doing more practices such as guiding thru channels sudden disruptions can cause stagnation and or injure. However I may understand what watching tv or listening to music means. Many people have difficulty releaxing and also to give proper dedication to practice. Tv and music may be a method to bridge this.
It may be possible thru more training to achieve a state in which outward distraction do not have an effect on you and you can calmly observe things. I personally would not advocate practicing Zhan Zhuang while watching tv or listening to music however I might suggest to practice while doing other things to give a state of being in the now and total consciousness awareness. Again teachers have different methods,advice to their students sometimes advice given is taken out of context and meaning misunderstood.

 

[Xue Sheng]

This is my opinion.
You do not want to be disturbed,disrupted during Qigong exercises.
If you are guiding Breath,Mind,Qi,Well just about anything you want to be focused on what you are doing. When you are doing more practices such as guiding thru channels sudden disruptions can cause stagnation and or injure. However I may understand what watching tv or listening to music means. Many people have difficulty releaxing and also to give proper dedication to practice. Tv and music may be a method to bridge this.
It may be possible thru more training to achieve a state in which outward distraction do not have an effect on you and you can calmly observe things. I personally would not advocate practicing Zhan Zhuang while watching tv or listening to music however I might suggest to practice while doing other things to give a state of being in the now and total consciousness awareness. Again teachers have different methods,advice to their students sometimes advice given is taken out of context and meaning misunderstood.

Agreed

XUE SHENG -

Great links, thanks.

I find the Lam Ka Chuen pieces around Zhan Zhuang interesting too. Advocating listening to music or watching TV while in Standing postures??

I'd be curious to hear what others, more experience than myself, have to say about such a thing. It strikes me as odd. I find listening to the lower Dan Tian and feeling breath in your body very helpful.

Actually I do not feel listening to music or watching TV during standing is a good thing, it is just to distracting and IMO missing the point. It has been my experience that you do not so much practice standing as you do stand and listen to music or watch TV.

 

[Formosa Neijia]

I find the Lam Ka Chuen pieces around Zhan Zhuang interesting too. Advocating listening to music or watching TV while in Standing postures??

I'd be curious to hear what others, more experience than myself, have to say about such a thing. It strikes me as odd. I find listening to the lower Dan Tian and feeling breath in your body very helpful.

This kind of thing gets said to beginners just to make them do the practice. The problem with training beginners is that there's an athletic phase to go through where the body has to be conditioned to the training before anything more internal can be introduced.

But two bigger problems:
1. as Xuesheng already said, standing while watching TV totally misses the point.
2. it gets people thinking that standing for time is the goal of practice. It isn't.

 

[East Winds]

Eva Wong used to be Moy Lin Shin's No.2 in the Taoist Tai Chi Society. There was a parting of the ways before Moy's death for whatever reason. However, unless she has changed her direction, you will find no martial aspect to her teaching. The Taoist Tai Chi Society expressly forbids any involvement in the martial side of Taiji.

I agree that satnding for standings sake is useless. I also agree (up to a point) that standing for time is also a useless practise. However, there are two methods of teaching (and learning) Zhan Zhuang. The Fire method and the Water method. Both have their advantages and disadvatages. The fire method involves choosing a time (say 15 minutes) and standing for that time no matter what you experience in your mind or body. The water method says you choose a stance and stand until you find your mind has wandered away. Then stop, - there is no point in continuing. Both these methods are legitimate training tools in Zhan Zhuang/Da Cheng Chuan training. Zhan Zhuang is a training tool and the first steps to experience and develop the Jins in Taijiquan.

Very best wishes

 

[JDenver]

EAST WINDS -

I feel like I owe you money. What a great post about the fire and water aspects of Standing. Wow.

I'm very new to it (a few months off and on, and now only a month or two into daily practice) and unwittingly I was alternating fire and water aspects.

Of course, with no teacher (see my other thread!), I've been wondering if I'm just being mentally lazy!