Why not be your own Master of your own style

[terryl965]

My so called friend and I was having a pleasant converstation when he told me he has developed his own style, and wanted me to teach his style through my school. As everybody knows I cannot understand people that start there own style but he has a point, that his style like everybody elses just takes what is good and throws away the rest. My point is why and how qaulify is someone that has learned from the old school to all of a sudden change into his own style; what makes a man change. I have personally known this man for 23 years and he is saying, was he was just tried, when ask of what he said ego's, just ego's, but in my opion he's ego has grown to start his own style... Oh by the way he is calling it Bach Sin ryu don't know if I spelled it right or not, not to impress with it, so he showed me a couple of his Poomse was'nt nothing to brang about look like Chongi style with a flare in it...God Bless America:idunno: :flame:

 

[clfsean]

"Rant Mode On"

Welcome to the world of "I'm the Man"!!!!

My sifu has trained with 3 people in his life in 2 different styles. He went through the Chinese "Bai Si" ceremony of discipleship with his teacher now a few years back. That's it... he's done. One teacher in style from now on.

His teacher has also studied with 3 people in 1 style his entire life. He asked his retired teacher if it would be ok to train in China with other people from the same style. That was a 50 something year old man asking a 70 something year old man permission to do something he's been doing for the past 40 years!

It seems that plenty of American martial artists are too quick to assume they have something special & that they need to start new style & declare themselves the "Grand Poobah Chief Instructor of the Known Universe" to do it. Then they get a little group of people that think like them & they all trade rank & recognition like baseball cards.

I've given up. I'm not saying I've found the teacher I'll be with from this point forward, but I think I've come about as close as I can to doing that. In the meantime while I work on one style for the next "X" number of years, people who are of the same generation of martial artists as me & below me with undoubtedly created at least 150,000 new styles of MA because they don't agree with somebody over politics, think they've got the end all be all of MA, or some other silly reason...

"Rant Mode Off"

Sorry about that...

 

[MA-Caver]

I think for your friend to truly find out if he does have his own style... what he probably should do is go to various dojos and take on the instructors in full contact sparring (padded of course). If he can beat them then he probably has a style worth teaching... if not... mebbe it'll pop that little ego balloon floating over his head. (semi-tongue in cheek here).
I'm not trying to scoff yours or your friend's claim. Just one little red flag I saw already was

...that his style like everybody elses just takes what is good and throws away the rest...

I mean that sounds a lot like Bruce Lee's explaination of his Jeet Kune Do. Another flag was:

but in my opion he's ego has grown to start his own style...

If the man wants to create his own style then more power to him. My question(s) would be; how long has he been in MA's? How many other styles has he studied/ranked in before, how long in each? How long has he been working on his style? Does he have written theories (notes, etc.) on his work? What are the practical applications does his style have? Self-defense, sure, but is it going to be effective against all types of attacks? Has he ever used "his style" in actual (street) "combat/fight"? How effective was it? How many times has he used that in actual fighting? Will his art help elevate a student to higher enlightenment? Enlightenment of themselves and their world around them?

You said: so he showed me a couple of his Poomse was'nt nothing to brang about look like Chongi style with a flare in it...

Did he just take one (or two or three) particular move/form(s) and made a change in it and is now calling it "his style" ? Hell, even I can do that, and so can everyone else on this board. Whether or not it'll work remains to be seen, but one can't call that a new martial art style IMO.
A MA style doesn't have to be steeped in centuries of traditions and teachings, Bruce Lee and Ed Parker proved that theory wrong. But a MA style does need to be able to be unique enough to be easily recognized that it is not an alteration of a previous, well established art, but more of a dramatic improvement/alteration of an old one.

My own rant mode off.
No apologies.

 

[MichiganTKD]

I agree.
Most people who claim to have developed their own style are simply ripoff artists who have studied various styles for maybe 10 years and think they have the magic style ("this style blends the best of the various styles I have studied"). When all it is is a combination of the two styles. Nothing new. There is nothing wrong with introducing concepts from other styles to advanced students, but don't kid yourself into thinking you're creating something new.
Oh yeah, it's also mandatory for a new style creator to give himself 10th Dan Kwan Jang Hanshi ranking. He is the creator of the style after all.
For the record, our Grandmaster has almost 50 years practice in Tae Kwon Do Chung Do Kwan. If anyone might be qualified to develop his own style or art it is him. However, out of loyalty to his Instructor, and due to his belief that Chung Do Kwan stands on its own, he never has.

 

[terryl965]

MACaver I do not like him doing this, But he has been study Shotakon, Jujitsu, Tae Kwon Do,Judo and Mauy Tai kick boxing... Holds the Rank of Black belt in all, I just know about his Tae kwon Do aspect he's a pretty good teacher of the sport side of it. the rest I do not know he says he is putting a website toghether when he's done I'll forward that info. so everybody can make there own decission. Mine will not change, if his theories are standing then he will benefit if not he will go by the waist side like everybody else... God Bless America

 

[MichiganTKD]

I also believe in the Natural Selection theory of new styles: If a "new style" is truly beneficial and worth learning, it will prosper as its reputation grows and people are drawn to it. And not just for the curiosity factor. If a style is not worth the hype, it will perish as people will see it for what it is.

 

[MA-Caver]

MACaver I do not like him doing this, But he has been study Shotakon, Jujitsu, Tae Kwon Do,Judo and Mauy Tai kick boxing... Holds the Rank of Black belt in all, I just know about his Tae kwon Do aspect he's a pretty good teacher of the sport side of it. the rest I do not know he says he is putting a website toghether when he's done I'll forward that info. so everybody can make there own decission. Mine will not change, if his theories are standing then he will benefit if not he will go by the waist side like everybody else... God Bless America

Terry, now that you've stated his qualifications. A black belt in all. It does lend a bit more weight to him. I mean geez the guy is pretty devoted to Martial Arts to get a black in five (or more) seperate arts, that takes a while to do. So he may have come up with something over the course of the years of study/training.
I agree with Michigan that "natural selection" will take it's course.
Good luck to your friend.

 

[Black Belt FC]

He's has black belt ranking in various styles but Master of None. Must I say more?

The only valid person who will be taken seriously about making a new style is someone with 30 to 40 years of training for example Bok man Kim (Chun Kuhn Do).

The old school guys like me will laugh and throw him out of their dojangs.

 

[Han-Mi]

Why create and/or name a new style. Follow your old traditions, rules and forms while encorperating new moves/techniques. I am trained in traditional TKD, but if you fought me you would be very surprised at my ability on the ground and on the inside. That is because I have "my own style".
I don't rename it "jeet kwon chung fu do karate" It's just my personal style. I have what I like to call informal training in many other arts, because my instructor and I have friends in other arts and try to incorporate other arts into our own.
When it gets down to it, we all have our own style, a different form of what we were taught, the ignorant thing is to assume that what works for us will work for other people.

Just my oppinion

 

[MA-Caver]

Why create and/or name a new style. Follow your old traditions, rules and forms while encorperating new moves/techniques. I am trained in traditional TKD, but if you fought me you would be very surprised at my ability on the ground and on the inside. That is because I have "my own style".
I don't rename it "jeet kwon chung fu do karate" It's just my personal style. I have what I like to call informal training in many other arts, because my instructor and I have friends in other arts and try to incorporate other arts into our own.
When it gets down to it, we all have our own style, a different form of what we were taught, the ignorant thing is to assume that what works for us will work for other people.

Just my oppinion

Exactly, there's nothing wrong with incorporating new techniques into an old established style/art because that's how things grow. Grafting trees while maintaining the original root system. In fact it (can) make you appreciate your original base art even more.

 

[TigerWoman]

I don't even feel qualified to answer the question, let alone as a black belt, start a new style. I doubt getting a black belt 1st degree in a few more disciplines would aid that either. You are not a master of TKD until 4th Dan. Even at 2nd dan, I will be starting to vocalize commands to students to do their forms instead of just showing them and doing it with them in parts.

And while your friend may execute form well, he may not have the deep understanding of what it took for those traditional forms to come about--their evolvement, the masters who devoted themselves to perfecting them. The knowledge in working with students for a long time, something called experience, that gives the style originator, what a student needs to know at each stage of his progress, how much he can handle, etc. How can your friend judge at this point in HIS TRAINING as a black belt student that he is superior in knowledge.

Agreed, that time will tell if his style will survive but at the disservice to his students possibly, probably. And his students have to also deeply agree with his style. They will know eventually they are not following traditional or Taeguek. What happens at tournaments? Or will they not go to anything except opens and all the judges will say, whats that? The students who become black belts will also have to believe in that style for it to continue. And what do his students do, thinking they are learning the right way from a qualifed TKD instructor and then later, he abandons the style, or they have to relocate to another part of the country and they have to relearn forms all over, start from white belt... Change is not always good.
MTKD, I said that before too...

 

[beauty_in_the_sai]

On my opinion, it's one's own business whether or not to make up their own style. Sure I agree you should know the basics of at least one style first and dab in some others first. I waited till after I got my black belt to create one. I don't agree though with teaching others YOUR style, but I'm sure that's a matter of opinion too.

Toodles!

Becky:supcool:

 

[The Kai]

Reaching the level of black belt (shodan) is hardly experienced enough to start your own system

 

[rupton]

Reaching the level of black belt (shodan) is hardly experienced enough to start your own system

Second that. And since I'm too new to have caught the first post originally I would just like to add my comment on the OP stating that "throwing away what doesn't work and keeping what does" is a valid argument. Think about it from this perspective. People have been doing that for a very long time, if this statement was valid you would think that eventually there wouldn't be anything left to throw away Certainly styles need to evolve, but that doesn't mean throwing away the foundation and rebuilding. Doing that at Shodan or before, to me, shows a lack of maturity and understanding of your paticular way. Just my $.02 take it for what it's worth.

 

[Jim Tindell]

That Chuk Sool Won (or whatever... Chuck Norris's art) is stupid-looking. My dad ordered a video for it, because Norris is his idol. The video doesn't really showcase much about the art, so I wonder if there is really that much to show.

 

[Adept]

Master of your own style, eh?

Well, I suppose that I am. I don't bother to call it 'Charlie-fu' or anything like that, and I wouldnt try to impose any kind of rank structure, and I don't make a living out of training other people.

But when I'm training by myself, or with others, I don't give a hoot about whether or not what I am doing is TKD, or Jujitsu, or Boxing, or whatever. If I believe it will work for me, then thats what I will do. I mix and match what I know so that it suits me. I use a lot of boxing punches, a lot of basic TKD kicks, empty hand controlling techniques (I'm just starting bouncing, so this is kind of new to me), joint manipulation, escape and submission techniques, heck, whatever I think looks effective. I don't bother to name it anything special, it's just my own personal style that I feel works best for me.

 

[47MartialMan]

I had performed bai shi with my treacher. Have you performed this with yours?

After all of these decades, I still dont think I qualify to start my own system and be called a naster.

 

[Marginal]

What bothers me about the new system path is, nobody practices a MA exactly the same way. One person's particular spin on an established system's just how things work, it's not innovation.

 

[47MartialMan]

What bothers me about the new system path is, nobody practices a MA exactly the same way. One person's particular spin on an established system's just how things work, it's not innovation.

So this particular spin is someone trying to re-invent the wheel.

 

[Marginal]

No, they're not doing the groundwork to reinvent anything. They're just trying to teach people specifically how they like to practice the arts they've already studied. It's futile. Differing body types, smarts etc all change how someone will practice/fight.