Why are Finnish students smarter then the rest of the world?

[Makalakumu]

http://tinyurl.com/2cfy62b

High-school students here rarely get more than a half-hour of homework a night. They have no school uniforms, no honor societies, no valedictorians, no tardy bells and no classes for the gifted. There is little standardized testing, few parents agonize over college and kids don't start school until age 7.


Yet by one international measure, Finnish teenagers are among the smartest in the world. They earned some of the top scores by 15-year-old students who were tested in 57 countries. American teens finished among the world's C students even as U.S. educators piled on more homework, standards and rules. Finnish youth, like their U.S. counterparts, also waste hours online. They dye their hair, love sarcasm and listen to rap and heavy metal. But by ninth grade they're way ahead in math, science and reading -- on track to keeping Finns among the world's most productive workers.

The article makes a strong argument against overbearing bureaucracies cramming "standards" down the throats of teachers as well as trying to control the process from thousands of miles away.

Thoughts?

 

[dancingalone]

How homogeneous is Finnish society in terms of social and economic backgrounds?

 

[Carol]

How homogeneous is Finnish society in terms of social and economic backgrounds?

Extremely.

Finland has its own "institutionalized racism" as well.

 

[David43515]

Extremely.

Finland has its own "institutionalized racism" as well.

The same could be said for Japan. But the approach to education couldn`t be more different. Here we have uniforms, constant standardized testing, students either get tons of homework or they attend special private cram schools in the evening. And yet both systems seem to produce better test scores than the US. I think the biggest deciding factor is parental involvment and support of the kids` education. That`s where I`ve seen the biggest differences in the US and here in Japan. I may be wrong, but I kind of assumed it was a universal factor.

 

[Sukerkin]

The 'trick', I think, is not to have being smart seen to be 'uncool'. That is the factor that comes in when educational achievements are high on average.

 

[Tez3]

The Finnish students aren't smarter than than any other students they are simply well educated.

 

[CoryKS]

Another difference is financial. Each school year, the U.S. spends an average of $8,700 per student, while the Finns spend $7,500. Finland's high-tax government provides roughly equal per-pupil funding, unlike the disparities between Beverly Hills public schools, for example, and schools in poorer districts. The gap between Finland's best- and worst-performing schools was the smallest of any country in the PISA testing. The U.S. ranks about average.

See, we're spending too much on schools. Lower the education budget and we'll be smart like the Finns.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

How many Finnish flags are there on the moon?

End of 'who is smarter' argument.

 

[Tez3]

A great many people educated in many countries worked on the moon projectas well as Americans. The money of course was American.

Btw how many of you use Nokia phones or enjoy a sauna, both very civilised additions to the human condition.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

A great many people educated in many countries worked on the moon projectas well as Americans. The money of course was American.

The fact that we have all the money should be sufficient evidence as to how it got that way. When I see the flag of another nation flying on the moon, I will be willing to discuss how 'smart' they are relative to us. I hear China is getting close - moon and money-wise.

Btw how many of you use Nokia phones or enjoy a sauna, both very civilised additions to the human condition.

I thought the question was over intelligence, not relative level of civilization.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

I would be interested in seeing how subjects in these two countries are actually being taught, not just how much homework they have. Not only that, but what are the educational expectations from their culture.

A lot of these issues are cultural, not just "bureaucratic". And in the U.S., the culture is different based on where you are in the country. You'll often find that what works in one geographical location does not work in another. In that respect, maunakumu is correct. It is ridiculous to have one government bureaucratic mandate from one side of the country to the other.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I would be interested in seeing how subjects in these two countries are actually being taught, not just how much homework they have. Not only that, but what are the educational expectations from their culture.

A lot of these issues are cultural, not just "bureaucratic". And in the U.S., the culture is different based on where you are in the country. You'll often find that what works in one geographical location does not work in another. In that respect, maunakumu is correct. It is ridiculous to have one government bureaucratic mandate from one side of the country to the other.

QFT.

As an aside...

When I was serving in the military in Japan, we noted the harshness of the Japanese penal system. We were told (not sure how true it is, but this is what we were told) that the Japanese had modeled their penal system after the 'chain gang' system used in Louisiana during the 1920s. In Japan, there is a very very low recidivism rate. In fact, we were told that once during WWII, a US bombing mission knocked down the walls of a prison, and the prisoners not only did not escape, they helped to rebuild the walls.

Why, if Japan modeled their prison system after our own, do they have a much lower recidivism rate than we do - even lower than we did back when they copied it from us? In other words, our system worked better for them than it ever did for us. So why?

Some say it is because of cultural differences. Although Japan is changing, to a large extent, people convicted of crimes ARE SORRY that they are criminals and take responsibility.

I do know that when I was on Okinawa in the mid 1980's, the government of Japan maintained a monopoly on tobacco. People found black-marketing cigarettes faced a mandatory 1 year prison sentence - US military as well as Japanese civilians. However, if you were caught and convicted (they have a 90+% conviction rate), you could get it suspended if you apologized to the court. Americans found this crazy. Apologize and get off? Wow! But in Japan, an apology means something. Here, it doesn't.

My point is that cultural differences mean that the same techniques that work in one place may well not work in another - not because the technique is flawed, but because people are different depending on where they live, how they were raised, what they value.

 

[Bruno@MT]

How many Finnish flags are there on the moon?

End of 'who is smarter' argument.

Please Bill. You are an intelligent man. The flag on the moon has NOTHING to do with a supposed intelligence difference, and everything with gianormous funding that was spent on a race with the soviets.

But even if it was true in the 60s (which it wasn't but ok...) then the US is rapidly losing that intellectually dominant position to the Europeans and the Chinese.

You know both of these things, so I am wondering why you posted this in the first place.

 

[Bruno@MT]

The fact that we have all the money should be sufficient evidence as to how it got that way. When I see the flag of another nation flying on the moon, I will be willing to discuss how 'smart' they are relative to us. I hear China is getting close - moon and money-wise.

The money is more a testament to greed and might-makes-right thinking.
Your economy is propped up by the Saudis who still trade in dollars, rather than Euros. If they switched to Euros tomorrow, the dollar would plummet.

But still, an achievement 50 years ago does not reflect on the state of US education today.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

You know both of these things, so I am wondering why you posted this in the first place.

If higher test scores indicates (the subject line of the thread) that Finnish students are 'smarter' than the rest of the world, then I posit that our accomplishments prove that the USA is smarter. Both are equally ludicrous.

However, one can argue that 'smartness' is exhibited by accomplishments, not by potential. If that is the case, then my argument actually has some meaning. By every measure of material accomplishments, the USA leads all other nations (even if this is not going to be true much longer).

One might also consider why so many people of various nationalities find it important to attend US universities and colleges, particularly for technical and scientific education. I'm struggling to think of that world-class Finnish university that all the US students flock to...

And of course, I'm a complete drum-beating, flag-waving, USA-loving American. For all our problems, I think we're the bee's knees and I'll tell anyone that. Love to all, respect for everyone, but the USA is tops in everything. We're just great all the way around. Yay us.

 

[crushing]

From the article:

College is free.

:lfao:

 

[Cirdan]

The Finnish, our good neighbors, are smart because:

1: 10 months a year it is too cold there to go outside to play
2: Finnish TV shows are boring as hell

So then there is little to do but to study (while you sit in the sauna and drink Koskenkorva)

 

[Omar B]

Please Bill. You are an intelligent man. The flag on the moon has NOTHING to do with a supposed intelligence difference, and everything with gianormous funding that was spent on a race with the soviets.
But even if it was true in the 60s (which it wasn't but ok...) then the US is rapidly losing that intellectually dominant position to the Europeans and the Chinese.
You know both of these things, so I am wondering why you posted this in the first place.

Yes, but you can't throw money down every hole and have it plugged. I find Bill's analogy to work better than yours because clearly money didn't make it happen alone. Money no matter how large the pile does not fix things on it's own. Plus we have to look at the cause/source of that money, not just tax dollars, but major investments from engineering and aircraft firms who knew what they were doing.

If you think going to the moon in an unfair way of measuring a society then you must hold these test scores in the same contempt.

 

[Bruno@MT]

If higher test scores indicates (the subject line of the thread) that Finnish students are 'smarter' than the rest of the world, then I posit that our accomplishments prove that the USA is smarter. Both are equally ludicrous.

Ah ok my mistake. I missed that. I knew something wasn't right.

One might also consider why so many people of various nationalities find it important to attend US universities and colleges, particularly for technical and scientific education. I'm struggling to think of that world-class Finnish university that all the US students flock to...

The US is a popular destination because having studied / worked abroad works wonders for your resume here. The US is a favorite because the cultures are fairly compatible and there is no language barrier.
Japan for example would be equally prestigious if not more, but the language is a huge obstable, and the culture shock can be quite severe. China is getting to be more popular in recent years though. I suspect that it will draw a good amount of students in the near future. A big part for that reason is that China is becoming a big investor in the European markets. And if you know the language and act as a 'functional ambassador', you can get very wealthy indeed, no matter what specialization you majored in.

And of course, I'm a complete drum-beating, flag-waving, USA-loving American. For all our problems, I think we're the bee's knees and I'll tell anyone that. Love to all, respect for everyone, but the USA is tops in everything. We're just great all the way around. Yay us.

Sure. When it comes to blowing things up and outspending your adversaries, you ar enumber 1. But Belgium rules where it really matters: we got the worlds best chocolate, beer, waffles, and things like that.

 

[Tez3]

The reason I posted about about the Nokia and the sauna is because Finland gave us both.

It's fine talking up your own country but denigrating other countries to make yours look better is an iffy way of doing it.

I doubt any countries students are 'smarter' than other's or more intelligent, the difference is in the education system so that some countries students are better educated than others. Saying one country is 'smarter' than another sounds racist.