When is being nice no longer acceptable?

[Ceicei]

Girls Sued for Delivering Cookies

DURANGO, Colorado (AP) -- Two teenage girls who surprised their neighbors with homemade cookies late one night were ordered to pay nearly $900 in medical bills for a woman who says she was so startled that she had to go to the hospital.

Judge Doug Walker declined Thursday to award punitive damages, saying he did not believe the girls acted maliciously.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/02/04/costly.cookies.ap/index.html

************************************

We have had a few threads already upon the tendency of people to sue as well as whether there are just causes for these lawsuits. My view is, for most situations, that lawsuits should not be the first line of remedy. I think that lawsuits have a place when all other possible avenues and remedies have been tried.

We've also had other threads discussing zero tolerance, especially within the educational systems. Basically, the government (in one form or another) is frequently brought in to do the resolution, even when it should primarily be the parent's responsibility.

The question I am wondering is how this situation could have been handled differently? How is society, so bent on squelching the thoughts and behavior of young children and youth, hope to raise them to be productive, contributing members of their communities?

- Ceicei

 

[michaeledward]

The girls made cookies ... brought them to a house with the lights on ....rang the doorbell at 10:30 at night ... left the cookies on the doorstep ... and ran away.

In some places, this is considered a 'Random Act of Kindness'.

The woman who sued, suffered an anxiety attack which was treated at the local hospital. She was attempting to recover those medical expenses.

* * * * * *

The judge could have thrown the case out of court.

But, look at the news every night. The woman had every right to be terrified of someone ringing the bell late at night, then running away. It could have been a terrorist spreading anthrax. Or some other violent youth.

Perhaps the judge could have ordered the woman to purchase a firearm and take lessons in its use. That way, she wouldn't need to be afraid of things that go 'ring' in the night.

The woman was foolish. The judge was foolish. The girls were wonderful.



I want to send the girls in question a check ... anybody got their address?

 

[Ceicei]

The girls' parents did offer already to pay the woman's medical costs but were rebuffed.

I want to send the girls in question a check ... anybody got their address?

Considering their names were already mentioned in the article and the location where this happened is known too, I suppose it won't be too difficult for you to find their addresses...

- Ceicei

 

[Shizen Shigoku]

michaeledward: "In some places, this is considered a 'Random Act of Kindness'."
...
"I want to send the girls in question a check ... anybody got their address?"

See. That's how they get you. First one person does something nice, then another person has to retaliate and do something nice too, and then all of a sudden all sorts of people are doing nice things for other people . . .

Oh what is this world coming to?!! :xtrmshock

 

[Adept]

The woman was foolish. The judge was foolish. The girls were wonderful.

The girls were, perhaps, a tad naive. But their hearts were in the right place, and I'm sure they didn't count on one silly old woman nearly having a heart attack over being given some cookies.

 

[kenpo tiger]

Ahem. Forty-nine isn't old to some of us.

This article had more detail than the two I read elsewhere, however there isn't any indication why the girls chose to be nice so late at night in a deserted rural area. Perhaps that's the way folk are in Durango; perhaps they were doing exactly what they said they were - being nice - and perhaps there was an ulterior motive. The fact that it was so late at night and a woman living alone piqued my interest and raised a red flag as far as I'm concerned. Also, why did this woman react so violently to something so seemingly innocent? Must be more to the story.

 

[theletch1]

The girls were, perhaps, a tad naive. But their hearts were in the right place, and I'm sure they didn't count on one silly old woman nearly having a heart attack over being given some cookies.

After reading the article I'd have to say that "silly" isn't the word I'd use to describe the old woman. The girls apologized AND offered to pay the medical expenses. The law suit was simply to :teach the girls a lesson:. What, exactly, was the lesson? It certainly wasn't that doing good things for others will get you anywhere in life. It wasn't that taking responsibility for your actions and apologizing and offering to pay med bills was the right thing to do. Maybe I've just had enough of cantankerous old women the last few days but I hope the old lady get a tummy ache the next time she eats a cookie. :jedi1:

 

[Adept]

Also, why did this woman react so violently to something so seemingly innocent? Must be more to the story.

Thats what interested me.I mean, the motives of teenagers can be strange at times. Maybe they thought a lonely woman woul enjoy a gift, and perhaps they wanted to remain anonymous.

But this womans reaction was very strange. A knock on the door at 10:30 when I dont expect a guest. Okay, I'm cautious. I'l check who it is before I open the door.

But upon opening the door and finding a basket of cookies, one does not fall into such a severe state of shock that hospitalization is required. Why on earth would a basket of cookies provoke such a reaction?

 

[Ceicei]

But upon opening the door and finding a basket of cookies, one does not fall into such a severe state of shock that hospitalization is required. Why on earth would a basket of cookies provoke such a reaction?

I don't think it was the basket of cookies that caused her reaction. It appears to be the knock on the door, the girls' shadows, and their lack of response when she asked who they were that triggered her anxiety attack.

- Ceicei

 

[theletch1]

I don't think it was the basket of cookies that caused her reaction. It appears to be the knock on the door, the girls' shadows, and their lack of response when she asked who they were that triggered her anxiety attack.

- Ceicei

O.K., I'll buy that, but why all the melodrama after the fact? The girls apologized and offered to pay up so why the law suit and the "lesson"?

 

[michaeledward]

I think there was a movie a couple of years back about how our 'Media' generates fear and uncertainty throughout our society. If this woman watched the evening news on a regular basis, it certainly could make her 'sensative' to things that go bump in the night. If she watched some of the evening 'News Magazines', she might become 'overly-sensative' to a shadow at the door.

So many programs spreading fear.


No good deed goes unpunished .... (and I thought that was rhetorical).

Mike

 

[MA-Caver]

Ahem. Forty-nine isn't old to some of us.

:lol: Right on KT. I'm 43 so I'm with you. Ya hear that Adept. Watch what you say about being OLD ... keed!

This article had more detail than the two I read elsewhere, however there isn't any indication why the girls chose to be nice so late at night in a deserted rural area. Perhaps that's the way folk are in Durango; perhaps they were doing exactly what they said they were - being nice - and perhaps there was an ulterior motive. The fact that it was so late at night and a woman living alone piqued my interest and raised a red flag as far as I'm concerned. Also, why did this woman react so violently to something so seemingly innocent? Must be more to the story.

Being nice is difficult to do without being suspected of an alterior motive, it seems these days. Perhaps it was not a good idea to do it at that hour of night. They could've done it mid-afternoon if they were going to be anonymous by going up and leaving the cookies where they'd be clearly seen.
:idunno: Sometimes the impulse to do something nice for someone hits at an odd hour. Guess the key is to know the difference in holding on to the idea and waiting for an appropriate time to do it.

I've always loved that bumper-sticker that reads : "Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty." But of course be sure you don't offend anyone or make it a traumatic experience for them. Sheesh!

 

[Shu2jack]

The article on yahoo mentions that the girls stayed home and baked cookies instead of going to a dance. They also baked cookies for other neighbors and the neighbor's notes thanking the girls for baking the cookies were entered as evidence.

So these girls decided to stay home, bake cookies, and give them to neighbors....so it wasn't like they were targeting the woman. Also, the neighbors gave thank you notes to the girls for the cookies, so the neighbors knew who delivered the cookies.

Why didn't the woman who sued know who gave her the cookies? Did the girls run off because the woman did something to make them scamper off? Was she just a @#$&*, so the girls decided to give cookies without having to deal with her? If the woman was suffering an anxiety attack or if the episode was the result of the medical problem, why didn't she call the police to have it checked out or call the paramedics for a medical emergancy? Gar!! This makes no sense!!

[EDIT] You know, after thinking about this some more, it seems likely that this woman is just a prick and wanted to something to cause the girls some grief.

-The other neighbors in some way knew who delievered the cookies and wrote thank you letters, so these girls in some way let the other neighbors know who gave the cookies. To me this suggests that the girls didn't like to deal with the woman, but wanted to be nice.

-The girls ran off when they delivered the cookies, reinforcing that they didn't want to communicate with the woman.

-The woman who sued had an anxiety attack and was probably scared that something was happening late at night, but didn't call the police or hospital. I don't know about you, but if I feel that I am in danger or having health issues those are the first people I call.

-The girls offered to pay for medical expenses, so they felt bad about what happened and wanted to make up for it. The woman wouldn't accept, but decided to sue and get the money instead to "teach a lesson". The reinforces my theory that she is a ***** and why the girls did what they did in terms of running off after ringing the door bell.

Sorry, been taking Criminal Evidence and Procedure in college, so now I have been playing detective and lawyer.

 

[deadhand31]

I think there was a movie a couple of years back about how our 'Media' generates fear and uncertainty throughout our society.

Michael Crichton's book State of Fear has a blurb on this. It touches on several media scares in the past such as killer bees and shark attacks, added to the fear the media likes to cause. Fear is what keeps us listening. Fear is what sells ad-space. If we heard things like "african bees are coming to the us, but it's no biggie" there wouldn't be much story. Make a headline like "KILLER BEES TO MIGRATE TO UNITED STATES!", now that's got people's attention.

As for sending them a check, I TOTALLY think that a check or scholarship fund for these girls would be appropriate.

 

[Shu2jack]

As for sending them a check, I TOTALLY think that a check or scholarship fund for these girls would be appropriate.

I have baked cookies on several occassions for people......:uhyeah:

 

[Gray Phoenix]

:soapbox:This is disgusting on several points:

1.) That this woman should be so scared of the world that she has "anxiety" over the door bell ringing at night.
:bs:
2.) She then feels the need to actually use medical services better utilized on some in real need.
3.) SHE THEN SUES THE PEOPLE WHO WERE TRYING TO BE NICE TO HER!!!
4.) She actually thinks that this law suit should have any merit whatsoever.
5.) SOME MIGHT AGREE WITH HER!!??

I'll assume for the moment that $900 will be done through small claims and no lawyers were involved, just to avoid the lawyer rant.

End rant.

That being said, I hope the girls tried to make nice and brought her some cookies.:lool:

 

[kenpo tiger]

:lol: Right on KT. I'm 43 so I'm with you. Ya hear that Adept. Watch what you say about being OLD ... keed! <snip>

Aw, you're a kid compared to me. I'd take 43 again any day.:wink2:

As to the girls staying home from a social event important to most teens in order to bake cookies and do something nice for others, :ultracool.

As to this woman -- a few other questions spring to mind:
1) Why wait until the next day to go to the hospital with this anxiety-related problem? As someone else pointed out upthread, she seems to have been taking up space better utilized for someone with a more acute need, which this obviously wasn't.
2) If she stayed at her sister's house, why didn't her sister insist she report the incident immediately?

Once in a while, I think we take ourselves too seriously at times we shouldn't...

 

[TigerWoman]

Well, everyone knows I'm 29 by now, so I'll tell you a different kind of story. My son wakes me and my husband up about 1 am. He's frightened and says he heard a tap on the window, and a shadow passing by his window-never pulls the drapes, that one. So my husband sees something too outside and he is going out the top deck and I am going out the lower level patio door.

Very sheepishly someone calls out. It is a 23 year old former boyfriend of my daughters who was at school who had also befriended my son. He had seen my son's TV was on and stopped, hoping to get his attention. Not too smart that one. Had a long talk with him.

The woman being 49 should get into a self-defense class if she's that frightened. 49 is hardly old and feeble! But apparently she wasn't frightened enough if she went over to a friends house-went out her door into the perceived danger... Sounds like she was looking for more than cookies.. and concocted a plan.

How does this stuff get into the courts? TW

 

[Tgace]

Cause judges can be "nuts"...thats part of the problem with being able to run for an elected position with no experience prerequisites. Pretty much anybody here can run for their local bench...

 

[Gray Phoenix]

Cause judges can be "nuts"...thats part of the problem with being able to run for an elected position with no experience prerequisites. Pretty much anybody here can run for their local bench...

Too true. I'd like to have the judgeship be a govorner appointed position, but I dont trust the executive branch either. Most people have no idea who the nominees for judge are. No info is given and they dont need to advertise. A democratic republic can only function if the voters are educated. Otherwise you will end up with the mediocrity we currently endure.