What's the difference?

[TKDKid]

I don't know so much about Tang Soo Do, would anyone care to enlighten me on the differences between it and Tae Kwon Do? Thanks!

 

[Pale Rider]

I am going to give you my personal opinion on the difference, and I know that there are others.....

I have been invovled in TSD for 18 years and the comparison I have seen is:
1) TKD uses more kicks per hands ratio then does TSD.
2) TSD on the average utilizes more hip rotation and torque then TKD.
3) TSD has more "Japanse" roots as well, whereas TKD doesn't
4) If we take the words Tang Soo Do and Karate Do we will see that they are the same words 唐手道- in fact the Japanese changed the first character from 唐 to what it is today - 空 The old character meant "T'ang" or referred to the T'ang Dynasty in China and the new character means empty.
5) TKD is more geared towards the tournaments and TSD remained more traditional.

I hope this helps some.

 

[Yeti]

The forms are also different. TKD generally uses either the Taeguk/Palgwe patterns (WTF) or the Chon Ji Pattern Set (ITF)...(I know there are others, Songham TKD, etc...that's why I used the term 'generally' to cover myself).

TSD, however, - at least from my experience - follows a very similar pattern set to those used in Shotokan...Pinan 1-5, Bassai 1-2, Nihanchi, etc.

5) TKD is more geared towards the tournaments and TSD remained more traditional.
QUOTE]

From my experience w/TSD- limited as it was - I found this to be just the opposite. I'm sure this was merely the product of the school I attended rather than a globalized philosophy, but the emphasis was on tournament competition, and not the "traditional" (I've been in both types of TKD schools too...).

In my TSD school, we weren't taught, and weren't allowed to use a backfist becuase it was not allowed in any of the tournaments that our school took part in. Now I don't know if Shotokan uses a backfist or not...maybe that's the root of not teaching a backfist, but I found that odd.

Anyhow, that's my $0.02.

 

[Spookey]

Dear Sir,


There is one primary difference can unquestionably run across the board...(as opposed to simply being a reflection of an individual dojang)...

Being that Tang Soo Do and Taekwon-Do both came from great Japanese influence one thing can be noted. Tang Soo Do has a distinct Korean flovor that seperates it marginally from Karate-Do, however there has been no major attempt to seperate the two during the maturing process of the style. Taekwon-Do on the other hand has made every attempt to seperate itself from its unquestionable Japanese roots.

Tang Soo Do has naturally matured away from Karate-Do to an extent; where as Taekwon-Do has experienced more of a forced evolution!

TAEKWON!
SpooKeY

 

[TKDKid]

See, I think that's interesting. I know that from the stand point of the WTF, TKD has very much taken a forced evolution. On the other hand, at my dojang, we get a real taste of both Japanese and Korean. Our first seven forms after the basic forms are Pyong An 1-5, and two Chul Gi forms (Heian and Tekki in Japanese, respectively) which are also used in TSD and Shotokan...to my knowledge, anyway. After Chul Gi we practice Jhoon Gun, Toi-Gye, Hwa Rang, etc... which I believe are ITF forms, if I'm not mistaken. My instructor's instructor came to Oklahoma from South Korea, there's no telling what his roots were, I wish I could have met the man.

 

[Spookey]

Dear Sir,


The ITF & WTF both showed the strong Japanese influence...


The Pal-Gwe of the WTF and the early Chang Hon patterns were both good examples of the Japanese influence with Korean flavor. Later on General Choi further modified his Chang Hon Hyungs then added the theory of sinewave. That was a big step towards broadening the gap between TKD and Karate-Do. The WTF followed suit with the creation of the Tae-Geuk Poomse.

Bare in mind that there are only so many techniques possible in martial arts. The difference is in the methodology and execution!

TAEKWON!
SpooKeY

 

[arnisador]

Tae Kwon Do is essentially Japanese Karate with high kicks; Tang Soo Do is essentially Japanese Karate with a Chinese influence. My understanding is that TKD is more sports-oriented and TSD is oriented more toward self-defense, but that surely varies by organization; also, TSD uses relatively less kickings.

 

[TKDKid]

Bare in mind that there are only so many techniques possible in martial arts. The difference is in the methodology and execution!

TAEKWON!
SpooKeY

You know, that is a very good way of putting it, I had never thought of it that way before.

 

[Pale Rider]

Tae Kwon Do is essentially Japanese Karate with high kicks; Tang Soo Do is essentially Japanese Karate with a Chinese influence. My understanding is that TKD is more sports-oriented and TSD is oriented more toward self-defense, but that surely varies by organization; also, TSD uses relatively less kickings.

This is in essence what I had said earlier, but I have to say that I have never heard that TKD has Japanese roots. It is evident in the forms (katas/hyungs) that the TSD and Japanese arts are similiar in alot of ways. If we take the higher gup/kyu forms (Heian, Pinan, or Pyong Ahn) depending on which style a person is in, it will be clear that the forms are almost identical.

The only difference is that the TSD stands more 'upright' whereas the Japanese and/or Okinawan forms are with lower stances.

I have watched some of the TKD forms and there are alot of forms that they do that I could pick up rather quickly, but they have nothing in common at all.

 

[Spookey]

Dear Pale Rider,


Please understand that there are multiple pattern sets in TKD. The Chang Hon Hyungs (a.k.a. Chon-Ji Patterns) as originally performed demonstrate a strong Japanese / Okinawan influence.

As a matter of FACT...the first text of Taekwon-Do (written by General Choi Hong Hi) includes the first patterns if Taekwon-Do as well as several katas of the Sho-Rin and Sho-Rei schools including Hei-An, Bassai, En-Bi, Ro-Hai, and Jit-te as well as others.

Also, if you look at the text of the Chang-Hon Hyungs and compare to the physical expressions you will see that most of those high kicks are actually described in the text as "executed towards the middle section". Yes there are some described kicks to the high section, but not nearly as many as you see in tournaments and demos...

For reference purposes please view and compare the following forms...from the site of Mr. Dennis McHenry!


Pyung-ahn Ee-Dan (Tang Soo Do) Won-Hyo (Chang Hon Taekwon-Do)

TAEKWON!
SpooKeY

 

[Miles]

Welcome to MT TKDKid!

Here is what I posted on this very topic in the TSD section:

<<Sure, but it may be a pretty long post.

Material/Emphasis-There are differences in stances between the 2 arts with generally TSD stances being longer-there is a post somewhere in this area on this exact subject so I won't go any further.

TSD also utilizes more hand techniques than TKD. In sparring and hoshinsul, TKDin use different footwork in order to deliver attacks/counter-attacks. Indeed, because TKD uses continuous full contact sparring (whereas TSD does point), the counter-attack is stressed more in training.

TKD and TSD have different "set ups"-crossing the arms for closed-fist blocks and how "knifehand blocks" are set up-arms extended shoulder-level in TKD, whereas TSDin have their hands at belt-level.

TKD uses more snapping motion kicks whereas TSD uses more "thrusting" kicks.

Curriculum-in most TKD schools, sparring is introduced progressively: promise sparring (ie. no contact), then light-contact, and finally full contact. Since TSD sparring is point, it is light-contact with no progression.TSD allows head strikes in sparring, TKD does not.

Forms-there is an emphasis in TSD schools on forms which is not present in TKD. The forms are different-TSD uses the older pyung-ahn series, bassai, etc. whereas in TKD (Kukkiwon) forms are shorter, more symmetrical. I have also seen different TSD schools use the same forms at different rank levels. TKD has a standard-one form per rank with nearly universal applicability (i.e. Taeguek 8 for cho-dan)

Terminology-TSD uses the original terminology for its techniques-for example "ha dan/chung dan/sang dan makki" versus "arae/momtong/eugol makki" for TKD.

Please do not misconstrue my point. I am not saying one is better than the other-they are just different. Hope this helps!>>

Miles

 

[Pale Rider]

Indeed, because TKD uses continuous full contact sparring (whereas TSD does point), the counter-attack is stressed more in training.

Of course that varies from school to school and organization to organization. The TSD School that I attended stressed more of continuous full (or at least semi full) contact, and the TKD schools I have seen are more geared to points. So I believe that this particular case is only due to schools/organizations/area.