What is to be done with this PUNISHER problem?

[Omar B]

So it looks like our old buddy Frank has finally rattled the wrong cages and it looks like The Avengers are going to have to deal with this problem running around NY.

I can't wait to finally see Frank put all these dudes in their place after all these years. Frank's a soldier, he has collected his intelligence, he won't engage the Avengers in open battle, he will find and pick at their weakness till he tears them apart. I'm sure he'll destroy IM's armor, maybe a virus, maybe just shoot Tony himself. He's gonna have to figure out a way to separate Thor from his hammer etc.

The Avengers themselves have lost sight of street level crime. They only care about earth/universe shaking threats and Frankly (pun intended) it disgusts Frank (and me too). Heroes out there not saving people?

The heroes that make up the Marvel Comics super team known as the Avengers have banded together to face the foes no single hero could confront on their own. They spend the majority of their time battling villains who can conquer worlds and wipe out entire planets. They usually leave smaller crimes to the police or other heroes that operate more on a smaller, street level. What happens, though, when someone at the street level does something to attract the Avengers' attention? And what happens when that someone is the​

gun toting anti-hero known as the Punisher (AKA Frank Castle) who fights crime, but does it with a more aggressive take no prisoners approach?

...​

"I don't think Frank is at all surprised when this happens. He knew it was inevitable, but he of course has a contingency plan. He's got a contingency plan for everything. That doesn't mean Frank is happy with the situation though," Rucka remarked. "I never felt that Frank looks at the heroes with contempt. I don't think he looks at the Avengers and says, 'You guys are laughable.' ....

"The heroes that regularly run into the Punisher, like Spider-Man and Daredevil, would have brought him in a long time ago if they thought bringing him in would do any good. As I have said elsewhere and many others have said as well, what do you do with him? Send him to prison? Great, that's a paid holiday for a guy like Frank. The beds are more comfortable, the food is better, he's getting regular meals, and everybody he needs to kill is right there. So what's the other alternative? It's not to kill him. They cannot become him. They're heroes," Rucka said. "So while this series looks like it's been dipped in the heroes-fighting-heroes-sauce, it isn't as simple as that. This is not an excuse for Frank Castle to go beat up the Avengers. Nor is it an excuse for the Avengers to beat up on each other or Frank Castle. There's more going on here. The members of the Avengers will have differing opinions on how they should handle this. ...

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=39738​

http://www.superherohype.com/news/articles/171843-comic-con-details-on-new-punisher-war-zone-series
http://www.digitalspy.com/comics/news/a393697/marvel-details-punisher-war-zone-comic-con-2012.html

 

[bluewaveschool]

Wait, Frankencastle is finally over?

 

[Omar B]

Yup. Well in a month or 2 when this starts.

 

[billc]

Couldn't the punisher shoot Tony Stark with a .50 caliber sniper rifle when he wasn't in his armor, say, when he went out to dinner?

 

[Randy Strausbaugh]

They'll probably relaunch Punisher as a pacifist librarian. No, wait- it's DC that does that sort of thing.

I see it as sort of like when Iron Fist fought the X-Men years ago. He held his own, but numbers and power finally caught up with him.

 

[granfire]

You guys crack me up when you talk Nerd.
:roflmao:

 

[Omar B]

Couldn't the punisher shoot Tony Stark with a .50 caliber sniper rifle when he wasn't in his armor, say, when he went out to dinner?

Oh sure, getting a shot off on the head of SHIELD is sure gonna be easy. After all, it's way easy to kill the head of any security org like the FBI, CIZ or NSA. There's a a bubble of protection around Tony when he's not in armor.

 

[billc]

Has that ever stopped the punisher before? I would imagine the criminals he has gone after ramped up their security details after they realized the threat the punisher was.

If he can get to stark this way, I would imagine the same would be done for Captain America. I guess the problem for the punisher would be if he actually wants to kill the Avengers that he could kill. They are on the same side, and it seems as thought the Avengers would only capture him, not kill him. I still don't know why they would bother with him anyway, other than to sell comics.

 

[Randy Strausbaugh]

I hesitate to speculate since I heard about the Marvel NOW reload. Hell, he might wind up being one of the Avengers once it all shakes out.
Of course with 18 members and a twice a month publishing schedule (post-AVX), that might be a good place to hide .

 

[SuperFLY]

i think the premise is a bit flawed.. 'they're only saving the universe/world not worrying about street crime?'

couple of things wrong with that statement..

1. they're still the good guys saving the world whether they happen to see and 'detain' a pickpocket or not
2. the punisher isnt going to shoot joe bloggs on the street because he didnt stop a robbery. the failure to act doesnt make someone a criminal (in broad terms here)

the punisher goes after criminals, plain and simple. often with excessive force, but thats just his way.

he only went after spiderman as the bugle was always running stories on how bad he was, how he stole this and that - complete tosh in other words.

got pretty screwed though when he turned into the man-spider though

ghost rider had the same misconception when he went after the hulk.. until he looked into his soul.

in short, i dont think the punisher would have a reason to go after them, arsenal aside.. he'd get his *** whooped anyway e.g. separating thor from his hammer? he's still as strong as a god (and nothing can stop it returning to him if he wills it)

/nerd

 

[Randy Strausbaugh]

OK, Frank tankes on the Avengers. Here's my take. Please note that this is the most slender of plans, subject to a million screw-ups. Also remember that Frank usually has an unending supply of mob money and access to a plethora of high tech.

First, he figures if the Avengers are coming for him, he should be proactive and take them out first. He'd have to do it one and a time, and would have to be patient enough to choose his opportunities.

I agree Iron Man is the first target. He's the main tech guy. I don't read Iron Man any more, so I didn't know he was back in charge of SHIELD. Last I heard, Nick Fury made Daisy Whatshername (Quake) the head, and Cap, as National Security Adviser, OK'd it. Even if there's a bubble of protection, a sniper shot could still take Tony out if he's not in armor. It almost took out Norman Osbourne during Dark Reign, and Tony does'nt have Bob to protect him.

The next target is Captain America, because he's the leader. Even when he's not Avengers Chairperson, he's still the de facto leader of the crew. Most of Frank's usual methods (bullets, explosives, knives, etc.,) have proven ineffectve against Cap in the past, and his adamantium/vibranium shield is stronger now that it is laced with Uru metal from where the dwarves repaired it after the Fear Itself storyline (yeah, yeah, I know- Randy Strausbaugh, Ubergeek). The best bet is to use poison. Not really Frank's style, but that could work to his advantage in temporarily keeping them off his trail. The poison would have to be sufficiently toxic to overcome the super soldier serum, and fast-acting enough that it kills Cap before he has a chance to get help.

Wolverine's next, brought in to use his enhanced senses to sniff out the identity of the killer. Logan's adamantium-laced skeleton and mutant healing factor make him particularly difficult to kill. Since Frank has access to high tech weaponry, I suggest self-replicating flesh eating nanobots keyed to Wolverine's DNA. Logan couldn't just cut them off, and the more of him they ate, the more of them they would make. Again, this would have to be fast acting, before someone could set off an EMP or something to disable them.

Next, Daredevil. He knows Frank's habits and haunts well, and could probably track him with his radar sense. Also, Daredevil would be low-hanging fruit for the Punisher. Don't get me wrong, I like Matt, his mag is on my pull list, but a sonic/gas grenade to foul up his regular senses and a shower of metal shards to mess with his radar sense, and a 9MM burst to the chest should do it. The best chance for success would be when he's in his civilian identity surrounded by others (cuts down on mobility). The fact that one or two or twenty innocent bystanders would likely be killed wouldn't stop someone who is assassinating the Avengers.

Spider Man is next, Frank would have to manuver him into being neck-deep in that crowd-control foam that the military is working on. I know, easier said than done, but Frank's a strategist. While Peter is trying to get loose of the goo, Frank puts a bullet in his head. Then empties the clip, just to be sure.

Doctor Strange would present unique problems, since the Punisher usually does not deal with mystic forces. Frank would need to find an evil sorcerer who could mask him from Strange's mystic senses and defenses. Given that, Frank could walk up to him and slit his throat when Stephen went out for coffee. I don't think the Dr.'s martial arts prowess would be sufficient to overcome his attacker. Frank's problem- finding a reliable evil sorcerer (trust me- not easy).

Despite being one of my favorites, Iron Fist would not, I believe, present much of a problem. Shoot him in the chest from medium range cover and cut off his head before he can heal himself (a la Defenders #2).

Danny being killed will make Luke Cage cheesed off. Luke's primary tactical disadvantage is that he too often allows anger to dictate his actions. Even though he has steel-hard skin and innards (as Ant-Man found out the hard way ), he still has to breathe. Trap him in an airtight adamantium cell, pump out the air and pump in the nerve gas. Either the gas or the lack of air will kill him.

There are others, but I think you see the pattern. Get them one at a time, using their particular weaknesses and kill them. Face it, how many times is the hero at the bad guy's mercy, only to escape and prevail only because the bad guy didn't kill him when he had the chance. It's always "Mwah-ha-ha-ha! I want you to suffer as you see my master plan come to fruition!" The Dark Knight Rises is another example of this. How different would things have gone if Bane had just killed Batman while he had him at his mercy and hung his body from a bridge?

Of course eventually Frank would have to face Thor, who would flatten the Punisher's head like a pancake, and chop up his body with those big honkin' swords he's going to be carrying by then. JMHO.

 

[billc]

One quick question along the lines of this thread, why can't they get the Punisher right on the big screen. I am not a reader of the Punisher, although I have read some of the punisher graphic novels that my brother said were good, but the movies have been pretty bad.

 

[bluewaveschool]

Ra's al Ghul once took out the entire Justice League using plans he stole from Batman. Yes, Batman had ways to take out Superman, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Aquaman, the Flash and Green Lantern that worked flawlessly. So it's not out of the realm of possiblity that Frank could take them all.

 

[Omar B]

One quick question along the lines of this thread, why can't they get the Punisher right on the big screen. I am not a reader of the Punisher, although I have read some of the punisher graphic novels that my brother said were good, but the movies have been pretty bad.

Because the ex-soldier/ex-cop/ex-special agent going after bad guys in revenge for whatever is the basis for pretty much every action movie. Frank is unique within the realm of comics because he is 60's/70's era hard boiled r-rated action interacting with superheroes.

Also the movies for the most part fail to capture Frank's genius. The one with Tom Jane kinda did with him using psych warfare on the bad guys having them essentially kill each other off. He never really comes offf as the master tactician in the movies.

Oh, first War Zone comes out this week.