What is this? Why?

[kuntawguro]

The other day I was sitting in a local restaurant and a guy walks thru the parking lot, grabs on to a handle of an SUV (passegers side) he looks in, then proceeds to unzip and pee on the SUV and the parking lot. This is right in front of 12 people in this fishbowl restaurant-windows all around. I called the cops, they showed up and said- "there is nothing we can do about it"

Like there weren't 12 people who witnessed a crime?

This same police department were told of 2 boys shooting BB guns downtown at the local ducks in the river- their response "we told the boys to stop and move on"

Several winters ago I did some christmas shopping. When I got home I had 3 trips to the car to unload. While making 1 trip in, my neighbor gets into my car and takes DVDs, and a VCR. I know because in the freshly fallen snow - his footprints led from his garage to my car then to his house. The Police response "we will look into it" as they drove away. I still haven't gotten my stuff back. This sucks.

If I or any of my friends decided to take a leak downtown- they would have nailed us
If I stole from my neighbors garage I would be in Jail.
If I shot a BB gun at my heighbors dog I would have a stiff fine to pay- What gives?

Are police too lazy to issue citations or is it more economical to look the other way?

 

[Jai]

We have the same problem here. We are a very small town so we have one full time police officer who is our "chief" but he more a peace keeper then a law enforcement anything. He will not stop people from speed, and now the other day we had a kid get hit by a speed car. He will not take action to protect, nor will he take care of more serious matters in a timely manor. It is to the point where most of us take care of things ourselves rather then call anyone because we know that nothing will be done past "Don't do it again" then he tries to makes jokes out of whatever situation is going on. I don't understand myself.

 

[redfang]

In North Carolina, most instances where a misdemeanor offense happens out of the presence of an officer he or she cannot arrest for the charge. Generally, the victim or witness then has to go and swear out a warrant in front of a magistrate themself. If the identity of the offender is unknown to the victim, police will attempt to ascertain the alleged offender's identity and provide the victim with the information. This does not mean that an officer can't issue a citation if they have probable cause independent of witness statements. If I went to court with nothing but witness accounts, having seen nothing myself, I could testify to absolutely nothing. If the witnesses or victim doesn't come to court, there is no case. In the larceny you describe, with the footprints in the snow, I could possibly contact the suspect and get a consent search or an admission of guilt if they consented to an interview. If not, I'd be cutting a report and telling you to take out warrants. With the public urination, there wouldn't really be anything I could do. The shooting call, if I caught the juvenile's with the gun I'd try to get a confession, see if I could find any physical evidence of them shooting etc.

 

[Rich Parsons]

The other day I was sitting in a local restaurant and a guy walks thru the parking lot, grabs on to a handle of an SUV (passegers side) he looks in, then proceeds to unzip and pee on the SUV and the parking lot. This is right in front of 12 people in this fishbowl restaurant-windows all around. I called the cops, they showed up and said- "there is nothing we can do about it"

Like there weren't 12 people who witnessed a crime?

This same police department were told of 2 boys shooting BB guns downtown at the local ducks in the river- their response "we told the boys to stop and move on"

Several winters ago I did some christmas shopping. When I got home I had 3 trips to the car to unload. While making 1 trip in, my neighbor gets into my car and takes DVDs, and a VCR. I know because in the freshly fallen snow - his footprints led from his garage to my car then to his house. The Police response "we will look into it" as they drove away. I still haven't gotten my stuff back. This sucks.

If I or any of my friends decided to take a leak downtown- they would have nailed us
If I stole from my neighbors garage I would be in Jail.
If I shot a BB gun at my heighbors dog I would have a stiff fine to pay- What gives?

Are police too lazy to issue citations or is it more economical to look the other way?

Years ago I lived in a town house. One of the neighbors down the row was a female fire person. She was dating a cop from a different area. Her kids and his would play in the front yard that was about 8 feet deep. They played basketball off the cars parked their and also tackle football and land on cars. Now this would not be so bad but out back off the patio of all the houses there was this huge field out back with a baseball diamond abd back stop and within sight a basket ball court with baskets and all.

I called the police they showed up "Finally" and talked to me and them and after the flashed their badges I was told that they did not "See" a crime and as it was private property unless the management called they could do nothing. I jumped off the porch while saying, "You need to see a crime, watch this!" I had friends who jumped in front of me and held me back. The police officer saw how upset I was and went and talked to them again.

After they left the police officer boyfriend came and talked to me and told me to never call again. I called his department and told them he had threatened me after a police call and gave them the local number of the police the time I called the time they responded and the officer's name. Nothing was done but he would give me the stick eye. So, when their kids played out front I would go stand on their bumpers and bounce their car up and down. I even blocked them both in with my car parked behind them. They called the police numerous times. Finally to police asked me why I was doing this. I told them of the first issue and the officers name and how he handled it. They talked to managment and they did not wish to press charges against either. I also called the BF police department every time he said a word to me. Told them I felt threatened. He finally left and did not come back. She finally kept her kids in the back the yard where play according to the lease was supposed to occur.

I have lots of others stories of police not wanting to do the paperwork or make a case of something.

The point is that many times on private property the police cannot do anything unless they see it happen. Or the owner of the property has given them permission to treat the area as public property.

So in many cases it is best to call and just walk on.

As to being the subject of discrimination, take pictures. Show that it is a matter of continued practice by a group of officers or a department.

Good Luck

 

[Ray]

The other day I was sitting in a local restaurant and a guy walks thru the parking lot, grabs on to a handle of an SUV (passegers side) he looks in, then proceeds to unzip and pee on the SUV and the parking lot. This is right in front of 12 people in this fishbowl restaurant-windows all around. I called the cops, they showed up and said- "there is nothing we can do about it"

I dunno, Al Gore hates gas guzzling vehicles?

What ever happened to the days when people wouldn't just sit and watch someone screw up other people's property nor let people screw up other people? A yell, a scream, a "what are you dooooing!"

On the other hand, I read somewhere: "Guns - when seconds count, the police are minutes away".

 

[jks9199]

It's not illegal to urinate in public where I work, and there's no state code that covers it. It'd be a real stretch to make destruction of property on this, as described. But even if we assume there is a law against urinating in public where you were. OK... cop rolls up after you call; I suspect the guy was done with his "business" by the time the cop got there. Were you willing to go to court and testify? How about any of those other 12 people at the restaurant. How many were still around? No cop wants to end up in court, explaining a charge and telling the judge that the witnesses won't come to court.

With the ducks... Redfang described about how I'd handle it. As given, I can't prove the kids were shooting. Depending on their age, I might call their parents.

For the winter larceny... Gotta add another ditto. And let me add another possible isssue. You saw prints between that garage and your car. Could there have been footprints behind the garage going somewhere else? One of my partners and I once covered about 1/2 a mile through backyards in the snow after a guy assaulted his girlfriend and ran off.

But the real thing is that if you don't understand the actions of the police or are unsatisfied with how they handle a call, why not contact the police department directly? Who's going to be better able to answer your question -- a bunch of strangers on the internet (who may or may not know what they're talking about) or Sergeant Friday at your PD?

 

[grydth]

There's no law against this in Virginia? Only confirms my feelings about the North being vastly more civilized and advanced! There are no laws about indecent exposure or damage to property? Are there at least free carwashes?

If you don't criminalize the conduct, do you at least look the other way when the enraged property owner literally beats the piss out of them.... or do all cars down that way smell, well, a little you know...:barf:

My vote on your last question is, "a bunch of strangers on the internet" .

Hell, you asked.... and we have special chi powers we got from those two recent threads:mst:

 

[Tames D]

The other day I was sitting in a local restaurant and a guy walks thru the parking lot, grabs on to a handle of an SUV (passegers side) he looks in, then proceeds to unzip and pee on the SUV and the parking lot. This is right in front of 12 people in this fishbowl restaurant-windows all around. I called the cops, they showed up and said- "there is nothing we can do about it"

Like there weren't 12 people who witnessed a crime?

This same police department were told of 2 boys shooting BB guns downtown at the local ducks in the river- their response "we told the boys to stop and move on"

Several winters ago I did some christmas shopping. When I got home I had 3 trips to the car to unload. While making 1 trip in, my neighbor gets into my car and takes DVDs, and a VCR. I know because in the freshly fallen snow - his footprints led from his garage to my car then to his house. The Police response "we will look into it" as they drove away. I still haven't gotten my stuff back. This sucks.

If I or any of my friends decided to take a leak downtown- they would have nailed us
If I stole from my neighbors garage I would be in Jail.
If I shot a BB gun at my heighbors dog I would have a stiff fine to pay- What gives?

Are police too lazy to issue citations or is it more economical to look the other way?

Theres an old movie called 'Vigilante Force' with Kris Kristofferson and Jan Michael Vincent. Rent it and study it.

 

[kuntawguro]

# 1. it is against the law to expose yourself in public here. All the crew at the restaurant were out front when the officer returned. The guy tried to open the door of a car that wasn't his.

#2. It is agaisnt the law here to fire BB guns within the city limits, ducks are protected by the city charter. 3 witnesses were willing to press charges.

3. My neighbor had been in his garage all morning working on his car. The foot prints went from his garage to my car and then to his back door. Freshly fallen snow. Come to find out, the police were watching his house due to his drug activities. He was arrested for cocaine, but they never recovered my stuff.

When I called the local police dept and asked why they didn't follow up on the foot prints they said they were looking into it. When I threatened to go over and recover my christmas presents they said I would be obstructing justice. If they had just followed up they would have had reasonable cause to search and could have ended several months of investigation.
Oh well. I vowed next time- I would handle it myself.


On the urinating in public and exposure there was a steaming circle of liquid on the parking lot and under the car door that was 4 ft away from where the officer sat- he saw it. He just wasn't willing.

 

[grydth]

# 1. it is against the law to expose yourself in public here. All the crew at the restaurant were out front when the officer returned. The guy tried to open the door of a car that wasn't his.

#2. It is agaisnt the law here to fire BB guns within the city limits, ducks are protected by the city charter. 3 witnesses were willing to press charges.

3. My neighbor had been in his garage all morning working on his car. The foot prints went from his garage to my car and then to his back door. Freshly fallen snow. Come to find out, the police were watching his house due to his drug activities. He was arrested for cocaine, but they never recovered my stuff.

When I called the local police dept and asked why they didn't follow up on the foot prints they said they were looking into it. When I threatened to go over and recover my christmas presents they said I would be obstructing justice. If they had just followed up they would have had reasonable cause to search and could have ended several months of investigation.
Oh well. I vowed next time- I would handle it myself.


On the urinating in public and exposure there was a steaming circle of liquid on the parking lot and under the car door that was 4 ft away from where the officer sat- he saw it. He just wasn't willing.

In a seriious vein:

1) True in most, but not all localities.

2) Prosecuted very aggressively around here, almost more so than if they'd been shootong people instead of waterfowl. Some places would still look at this as boys being boys. Local cop would know what the offense is worth in local court.

3)This one is tough for me... On the one hand, I've had things stolen and it is something that gets anyone pretty angry. But I've also been the Army prosecutor working with an undercover drug team. From their threat to charge you with "obstruction of justice" and the later coke arrest, my guess is that the police had been setting this dealer up for a major felony buy... now, if you're the cops, do you blow weeks of under cover work for a petit larceny bust... or, do you nail him on coke sale and send him up the river for years on a felony?

 

[jks9199]

There's no law against this in Virginia? Only confirms my feelings about the North being vastly more civilized and advanced! There are no laws about indecent exposure or damage to property? Are there at least free carwashes?

If you don't criminalize the conduct, do you at least look the other way when the enraged property owner literally beats the piss out of them.... or do all cars down that way smell, well, a little you know...:barf:

My vote on your last question is, "a bunch of strangers on the internet" .

Hell, you asked.... and we have special chi powers we got from those two recent threads:mst:

There are local laws in some jurisdictions against urinating in public. And there are laws against appearing drunk in public, which somehow often accompanies public urination...

Beyond that, y'know... there is that whole issue of misdemeanors not committed in my presence...:shrug::wink:

 

[jks9199]

# 1. it is against the law to expose yourself in public here. All the crew at the restaurant were out front when the officer returned. The guy tried to open the door of a car that wasn't his.

Simply urinating in public is not enough for indecent exposure, at least under Virginia law. The person needs to do something that's reasonably interpretable as intended to draw attention to themselves.

#2. It is agaisnt the law here to fire BB guns within the city limits, ducks are protected by the city charter. 3 witnesses were willing to press charges.

So, go before a magistrate and obtain warrants. Most, if not all, states have some sort of process for people to obtain charges without the police.

3. My neighbor had been in his garage all morning working on his car. The foot prints went from his garage to my car and then to his back door. Freshly fallen snow. Come to find out, the police were watching his house due to his drug activities. He was arrested for cocaine, but they never recovered my stuff.

When I called the local police dept and asked why they didn't follow up on the foot prints they said they were looking into it. When I threatened to go over and recover my christmas presents they said I would be obstructing justice. If they had just followed up they would have had reasonable cause to search and could have ended several months of investigation.
Oh well. I vowed next time- I would handle it myself.

And you may find yourself arrested. One wrong doesn't justify another. If you're so disatisfied with their handling of this, file a formal complaint with the department. If you feel that they won't respond, contact your state's attorney general. There are means of recourse for people who feel that their local, state, or even federal law enforcement officials aren't doing their job.

On the urinating in public and exposure there was a steaming circle of liquid on the parking lot and under the car door that was 4 ft away from where the officer sat- he saw it. He just wasn't willing.

OK, again, I'll look at VA law, because it's what I know. Let's try charging with destruction of property. How was the car damaged? Can you place a cost estimate or show me the harm done to the car? Because that's what I'll have to show. I've already addressed indecent exposure; nothing you've written suggests that there is enough for that charge. Vehicle tampering? Nope; that requires something be done to prevent the car from being driven. Not make it gross... make it inoperable. Let's get really creative -- littering. OK. Probably could issue that ticket. Kind of doubt it'd fly in court, or we'd be looking at charging people who dump coffee, or spill a soda... Or, in the case of the jurisdictions with a public urination ordinance -- it's only a class 4 misdemeanor. That's a ticket. (I think it's generally $25.) But the officer didn't see the offense; it wasn't committed in his presence. So... he has to get a magistrate's summons, subpoena you and others to testify... Were you willing to give up a half-day or more of work to testify in this case? Do you know who's car it was? Would your feelings be different if it turned out to be his own car he was pissing on? Or how about the guy who was sleeping with his wife?

I'm not suggesting this wasn't a problem. Nor am I suggesting that it's not gross and extremely unpleasant. But that doesn't make it illegal. And I'm not suggesting that doing nothing was the right choice. I'd probably have tried to find a reasonably creative way to deal with it... like taking the guy's info, and having him wash it down with water from the restaurant, and maybe get him trespassed. That's if I couldn't DIP him. (Remember, some states don't have Drunk In Public laws; VA does.) The only thing is I don't really have any way to hold the guy to it...

I'm also not suggesting that the actions of the police you've dealt with are automatically correct. But I'm not hearing their side of the story. And, I think understandably, I'm rather predisposed to give them the benefit of the doubt. I don't know how long ago the Christmas gift theft was; if it was last Christmas, it's actually quite conceivable that the case is still going through the courts and they won't be able to release anything yet. But, as I said, if you're unhappy with the way things are going -- the people to talk to are YOUR police, or your state agencies. They can find out what happened, and take appropriate action.

 

[kuntawguro]

That is why I love this forum. INFORMATION- right or wrong. Sometimes it takes a look thru someone else's eyes. I do not agree with many of the answers given, but I do have a different point of view now-

Thank you.

 

[jks9199]

That is why I love this forum. INFORMATION- right or wrong. Sometimes it takes a look thru someone else's eyes. I do not agree with many of the answers given, but I do have a different point of view now-

Thank you.

And that's all anyone can ask for.

It's amazing how much progress can be made if folks actually communicate, instead of get into flame wars. And, I'll admit, police as a general rule often don't explain things well. We come into a mess, do things and change things, and leave. Sometimes the mess is cleaned up; sometimes it's worse! We have a lot of power and authority, but a small toolbox. And too many times the cop doesn't tell someone why they did things a certain way, or they deliberately don't tell people things because they're afraid they'll give away some tactical concern -- but the truth is that many of those things don't matter or aren't really that big a secret. And by not explaining them, we just fuel frustration.

 

[Tom]

I dunno, Al Gore hates gas guzzling vehicles?

What ever happened to the days when people wouldn't just sit and watch someone screw up other people's property nor let people screw up other people? A yell, a scream, a "what are you dooooing!"

On the other hand, I read somewhere: "Guns - when seconds count, the police are minutes away".

Amen, bro