What Is The Difference

[terryl965]

in wrestling, grappling, Nogi(misspelled) and ground work.
I ask because so many types of fighter refers to Jujitsu and NOgi or grappling or wrestling or just ground work and I really would like to know the true differences between all of them.
Thanks

 

[searcher]

The goals that they are tryiong to accomplish and the rules they have governing them. It may be a simple answer.

 

[Eternal Beginner]

in wrestling, grappling, Nogi(misspelled) and ground work.
I ask because so many types of fighter refers to Jujitsu and NOgi or grappling or wrestling or just ground work and I really would like to know the true differences between all of them.
Thanks

Like searcher said it all has to do with the end objective and rule sets. In wrestling, pinning opponents is important and being on your back is very bad, whereas being on your back in sub grappling is no big deal.

As far as the difference between nogi and gi grappling...grips change and it also makes a difference in various takedowns, etc. Submissions are also different because, of course, with a gi you have all kinds of collar chokes and can grip the gi to control your opponent.

 

[Andrew Green]

in wrestling, grappling, Nogi(misspelled) and ground work.
I ask because so many types of fighter refers to Jujitsu and NOgi or grappling or wrestling or just ground work and I really would like to know the true differences between all of them.
Thanks

Most of those are generic terms.

Freestyle wrestling - Olympic style of wrestling, can be one of points or a fall (pin) You are allowed to attack and control the whole body.

Greco-Roman Wrestling - Olypic style that only allows upper body attacks, so no leg takedowns, sweeps, trips, etc. Tends to have some bigger throws.

Folkstyle wrestling - American style taught in schools.

Catch Wrestling / Catch-as-catch-can - Older style that developed into pro wrestling, prior to that "pros" usually worked carnivals, taking challenges. Object was to "catch" or submit the opponent.

No-gi - BJJ practitioners usually refer to rolling without a gi as this, essentially BJJ without a gi.

Submission grappling / submission wrestling - More generic term for wrestling for submission without a gi involved, doesn't imply a link to BJJ in the same way.

Grappling / Wrestling - Just generic terms that mean basically the same thing. SOme people prefer one, other the other. As a generalization I'd say grappling is more "martial arts" like, and wrestling more often refers to the WWE kind, or olympic styles.

Ground work - Again, gereric. Rolling around on the ground, could be Judo (newaza), BJJ, Submission, Olympic style, MMA (ground & pound)

 

[still learning]

Hello, All these types of wrestling has rules......keep in mind on the street, anything goes.

Learn to fight with NO rules.....You will want to keep the fight as short as possible and to escape quickly with your life....Aloha

 

[matt.m]

Most of those are generic terms.

Freestyle wrestling - Olympic style of wrestling, can be one of points or a fall (pin) You are allowed to attack and control the whole body.

Greco-Roman Wrestling - Olypic style that only allows upper body attacks, so no leg takedowns, sweeps, trips, etc. Tends to have some bigger throws.

Folkstyle wrestling - American style taught in schools.

Catch Wrestling / Catch-as-catch-can - Older style that developed into pro wrestling, prior to that "pros" usually worked carnivals, taking challenges. Object was to "catch" or submit the opponent.

No-gi - BJJ practitioners usually refer to rolling without a gi as this, essentially BJJ without a gi.

Submission grappling / submission wrestling - More generic term for wrestling for submission without a gi involved, doesn't imply a link to BJJ in the same way.

Grappling / Wrestling - Just generic terms that mean basically the same thing. SOme people prefer one, other the other. As a generalization I'd say grappling is more "martial arts" like, and wrestling more often refers to the WWE kind, or olympic styles.

Ground work - Again, gereric. Rolling around on the ground, could be Judo (newaza), BJJ, Submission, Olympic style, MMA (ground & pound)

Andrew did a good job in explaining. I can't really top that my friend.

 

[Ybot]

Most of those are generic terms.

Freestyle wrestling - Olympic style of wrestling, can be one of points or a fall (pin) You are allowed to attack and control the whole body.

Greco-Roman Wrestling - Olypic style that only allows upper body attacks, so no leg takedowns, sweeps, trips, etc. Tends to have some bigger throws.

Folkstyle wrestling - American style taught in schools.

Catch Wrestling / Catch-as-catch-can - Older style that developed into pro wrestling, prior to that "pros" usually worked carnivals, taking challenges. Object was to "catch" or submit the opponent.

No-gi - BJJ practitioners usually refer to rolling without a gi as this, essentially BJJ without a gi.

Submission grappling / submission wrestling - More generic term for wrestling for submission without a gi involved, doesn't imply a link to BJJ in the same way.

Grappling / Wrestling - Just generic terms that mean basically the same thing. SOme people prefer one, other the other. As a generalization I'd say grappling is more "martial arts" like, and wrestling more often refers to the WWE kind, or olympic styles.

Ground work - Again, gereric. Rolling around on the ground, could be Judo (newaza), BJJ, Submission, Olympic style, MMA (ground & pound)

Excelent explination. The only thing I'd add is that true Catch Wrestling also includes pins for finishing the fight. From what I've seen lately fighters claiming catch don't train that way anymore.

Also, an intresting side note is that American Folk Wrestling (as practiced in US High Schools) is a direct decendent of amature Catch Wrestling. Basicly this is Catch, minus all the submission holds (so guess what, pins become more important).

 

[exile]

Most of those are generic terms.

Grappling / Wrestling - Just generic terms that mean basically the same thing. SOme people prefer one, other the other. As a generalization I'd say grappling is more "martial arts" like, and wrestling more often refers to the WWE kind, or olympic styles.

I think the `grappling' is used to cover a good deal more territory than what `wrestling' is generally understood to involve. Iain Abernethy, who's possibily written more about grappling as part of kata-based karate technique than anyone else, uses the term as the English equivalent of tegumi in Japanese, hence including grips, locks, throws, sweeps (usually as part of throws), chokes and strangles as stand-up techniques used to position an opponent for a disabling strike. Wrestling to me suggests techniques applied to an opponent either on the ground or to bring them to the ground, and grappling is also an apt reference to these techniques; but grappling is also part of the bunkai of forms in the striking arts, and typically involves immobilizing an opponent and setting them up for a finishing strike---after which, of course, they may well wind up on the ground! I wouldn't label `wrestling' the moves that Abernethy and that group of kata-based combat analysts in the U.K. typically refer to as grappling---the latter seems to me exactly the right term. A number of dictionaries I've consulted in checking this point identify the key idea of grappling as grabbing or seizing with the hands, gripping, holding... that range of meaning. So I think the term `grappling' is a quite bit less specific wrt ground-fighting than `wrestling' is.

 

[Andrew Green]

Excelent explination. The only thing I'd add is that true Catch Wrestling also includes pins for finishing the fight. From what I've seen lately fighters claiming catch don't train that way anymore.

From what I've read it was kind of a one way thing a lot of the time for the carnival pro's, if a challenger pinned them, they lost. But they had to finish the challenger to win. But it also varied a lot, some rules would say both could win by pin, other rules said neither.

Initally I think it was always there, but I think the problem was in outcomes being challenged, so they said challengers could win by pin, but pro's not. Pro's knew all the "catches" anyways

Which I suppose could explain why a guard game never really developed...

 

[exile]

I realized that I wasn't as specific in my last post as I had meant to be. An example of the difference in range of meaning between `grappling' and `wrestling' along the lines I had in mind would be the following: a wrist lock promoted to an arm lock by a followup grip on the attacker's elbow with the defender's other hand and a forward shift of the defender's weight, and a lowering of stance, will force the attacker to sink down or at least bend over, and will thus set up a punch to the base of the attacker's now much-lowered head. I wouldn't call any part of this scenario wrestling---but it is an instance of vertical grappling technique. That's the sort of thing I was thinking of.

 

[Ybot]

From what I've read it was kind of a one way thing a lot of the time for the carnival pro's, if a challenger pinned them, they lost. But they had to finish the challenger to win. But it also varied a lot, some rules would say both could win by pin, other rules said neither.

Initally I think it was always there, but I think the problem was in outcomes being challenged, so they said challengers could win by pin, but pro's not. Pro's knew all the "catches" anyways

Which I suppose could explain why a guard game never really developed...

While you were right about those Catch Wrestlers who traveled in At Shows (athletic shows- kinda carneval side show type stuff), original pro wrestling relyed heavily on pins as well as Hooks (which is what I believe they called submissions, and they called Wrestlers who were well versed in submissions "Hookers" of all things ). Those shows were usually set up in advance (they weren't challenge matches on the spot as they were in At Shows) and they had a referee. Catch-As-Catch Can rules were set from contest to contest (sometimes including holds that were normally barred like the strangle hold), but there were generally a set of rules that where pretty standard. In these shows it was typicly best 2 falls out of 3, or 3 out of 5. A fall included a pin, or submission by one of the wrestlers.

At At Shows on the other hand the Pros would generally work to hook their opponent and make then submit. These are the shows where they would except challenges from the audience (though they often planted challengers so there would always be a show even if no one stepped up). Challengers would usually try to survive so many minutes in the ring with the resident At Show Pro. In the cases where someone did step up the best way to finish would be to make them submit. No questions there who the winner was.

I am fasinated by grappling history (or just Martial Arts history in general) and have done a lot of reading on Catch. I highly recomend the book Catch Wrestling by Mark S. Hewitt if you are intrested at all in American Catch-As-Catch Can wrestling, or if you are intrested in old time Jujitsu and Judo challenge matches as well. Easy read as each chapter highlights specific episodes and histories of TRUE american pro wrestling from the days of Farmer Burns to the carnival or At Show wrestlers in the 50's and early 60's (kind of the end of real wreslting).

 

[zDom]

What about "wrastlin'" (backyard wrestling without folkstyle/HS rules, but generally doesn't involve striking?)