Visiting China Olympics? Behave Yourself!

[MA-Caver]

The rules are numerous but (to me) don't seem too strict. Carrying your passport at all times for example would make for common sense more than anything else.

China Issues 57 Rules For Olympics Visitors
By GEOFFREY A. FOWLER and SKY CANAVES
June 3, 2008
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121241380981137725.html?mod=yhoofront
HONG KONG -- The Beijing Olympics organizing committee issued a detailed handbook of ground rules for foreign visitors to this summer's Games. The 57 points address behavior from public drunkenness to political statements, a message that China won't be letting down its guard during the Games.
[Beijing 2008] BEIJING 2008

In recent months, the government has reported crushing several attempted terrorist plots to disrupt the Games. It has increased supervision of foreigners in China by tightening rules for issuing visas and checking up on foreign residents already in the country.

That they're watching out for terrorist is a good thing. One wonders though how would they get into the country in the first place? But then I guess you don't have to be of arabic descent to qualify as a terrorist.

International human-rights groups and some athletes' organizations have expressed concern over the ability of participants and spectators to speak freely during the Games. In April, International Olympic Committee President Jacques Rogge said that "freedom of expression is something that is absolute" and is shared by athletes. But he also said that athletes are guests in China and would have to abide by Chinese law.

This isn't surprising... they are still a communist country after all.

Still, the opportunity to visit this "closed" country is rare, at least for regular folk. I've a caver friend whom I've trained that is from the northern providences and he's extended an invitation to visit that I hope someday to take him up on when he returns for his annual visit as per his U.S. Visa which stipulates he has to return for at least 1 month out of the year in order to continue his studies in the U.S. China is one place I'd always wanted to visit, irregardless of their present politics.

Thoughts and comments on the rule book they've planned to hand out?

 

[tellner]

China hasn't been a Communist country in a long time. Oh, they still have a Red Flag and a People's Army. But if you look at what actually happens...

• The State has surprisingly little power to regulate or even influence anything that private industry does.
• None of the economic requirements for any sort of Marxism apply.
• Labor has no effective voice in the decisions of Capital.
• You have severe social control, just like in right wing countries such as Rhodesia, Fascist Spain, modern Singapore or, well, China in various millenia.
• The most inequitable distribution of wealth and income in the history of industrializations

 

[SageGhost83]

I was planning on making it out to China someday. My buddies and I were planning on going over there next spring to explore the country and connect with the people...and to party, of course. We keep referring to it as our "spring fling in Beijing". We'll see what happens. Tellner, I am in total agreement - Communist China isn't very Communist if we were to apply the common conventions of Communism to the country these days.

 

[Tez3]

I was planning on making it out to China someday. My buddies and I were planning on going over there next spring to explore the country and connect with the people...and to party, of course. We keep referring to it as our "spring fling in Beijing". We'll see what happens. Tellner, I am in total agreement - Communist China isn't very Communist if we were to apply the common conventions of Communism to the country these days.

The BBC has a wildife series on at the moment filmed in China, it's absolutely stunning countryside as well as being huge! I would dearly love to go and travel over there.
They have caves so big an entire village and it's school are situated in one,the mountains are beautiful as well, breathtakingly so.
I think we may not like communism but it's probably the only thing that in the 1940s could have dragged China out of the medieval condition it was in then. The country was in a shocking condition so it needed something authoritarian I think to get the country changed, capitalism had done nothing but harm up to that point. The country hadn't come out of the 6th century then with unbelievable poverty, warlords, slavery, incredible corruption in the court and government and cynical manipulation by western governments. Communism may have been a drastic solution then but one that was needed. Now they've out grown it and are in the 21st century with the rest of us.

 

[Empty Hands]

'Inside Olympic venues, it is illegal to display "any religious, political, and ethnic slogans, banners, and other items."'

 

[Xue Sheng]

I should probably stay out of this but here goes, once more into the breach

The rules are numerous but (to me) don't seem too strict. Carrying your passport at all times for example would make for common sense more than anything else.

That was what you were supposed to do before this in China.

That they're watching out for terrorist is a good thing. One wonders though how would they get into the country in the first place? But then I guess you don't have to be of Arabic descent to qualify as a terrorist.

They have problems with, I believe, Xinjiang Province. They have had terrorist issues there. And, this is not meant to cast any aspersions on anyone but it is a strong Muslim province.

Also they have stopped 2 terrorist plans already and one was going to crash a plane into the Olympics. I do not remember what the other was and I believe both were based out of Xinjiang Province

Still, the opportunity to visit this "closed" country is rare, at least for regular folk.

I wouldn't call it closed it is not that hard to get a passport and there are tourist everywhere. Beijing is loaded with them all the time. Well maybe not in the winter, it is very windy and cold there then.

Thoughts and comments on the rule book they've planned to hand out?

Bottom-line when you are in someone else’s house you have to follow their rules.

As for government and law;

My experience has been the in many cases Laws are suggested in Beijing... that is as long as a police office does not see you do it. Traffic is absolutely nuts except at the rush hours when police are everywhere.

Also you do not want to do ANYTHING big to draw massive attention to yourself if you are doing something illegal in China you WILL get arrested. And if you are REALLY looking to get into big trouble REAL fast, go start something in Tiananmen square.

Around the Olympics there will be a rather strong police and military presence, of that I am pretty sure, so if there behave, they will likely not negotiate with a Westerner like they would with a Beijingren. Chinese people, particularly those in Beijing are very aware of what they can get away with and when and what they can’t get away with at all. So just follow the rules and enjoy the Olympics.

The biggest scare I have had there was due to Western Ignorance. I saw a police car sitting next to the rally and the police out of the car looking in that direction, It was some sort of rally people holding banners and yelling and music. I saw the police get in their car and then I saw a contingent of Military heading into the crowd. And I ran for the nearest store for cover. What happened next….the cops drove off the Military walked (it was not even a military march) through and the rally went on, actually it never stopped.

I asked my wife about this and she said the military walk all over the place, it is no big deal. After that every now and then I would see a group just walking through various places from time to time... But I did not see much of a military presence in the major shopping areas.. those city block sized stores they have there.

China hasn't been a Communist country in a long time. Oh, they still have a Red Flag and a People's Army. But if you look at what actually happens...
• The State has surprisingly little power to regulate or even influence anything that private industry does.
• None of the economic requirements for any sort of Marxism apply.
• Labor has no effective voice in the decisions of Capital.
• You have severe social control, just like in right wing countries such as Rhodesia, Fascist Spain, modern Singapore or, well, China in various millenia.
• The most inequitable distribution of wealth and income in the history of industrializations

Mostly agree it is certainly a strange capitalist/communist place but the government does still have a whole lot more power than we are lead to believe. They do however look the other way a lot and if it is not in their face they tend to let it go and of course you have good old fashion graft but if they decide to shut something down it is shut down end of story.

Labor has no voice in government at all really but then if you are a Beijingren that is really no big deal you are doing pretty well. But if you are not a Beijingren and a migrant worker form the countryside you are pretty much at the mercy of the guy in charge of where ever you are working. There is no OSHA in China no job safety rules to follow and if you go to any construction site, and the entire place was a construction site just getting ready for the Olympics, you will see a lot of things that COULD not happen in the US.

And could you define what you mean by “severe social control”

Inequitable distribution of wealth is certainly part of China. And in Beijing it is no different but again if you are a Beijingren it ain’t so bad but if you are not you may be living in a box.

 

[tellner]

Sure! It's slippery because all of these are subjective and comparative. When I say "severe social control" I mean that the government or other centers of power exercise or try to exercise a great deal of direct control over aspects of citizens' public and private life. "Severe" doesn't necessarily mean "bad".

China has had a very long history. Sometimes things were not terribly restrictive. In others strict protocol, very clearly defined class boundaries and an emphasis on group cohesion and social stability have been very pronounced. Today the Chinese government has very strict control of a number of things like communication, political activity, publishing (leaving aside the embarrasing "Free Tibet" flag factory incident ), some standards of public behavior and so on. Much of it is aimed at - at least so the government says - making sure that society runs smoothly in certain ways. This is, I think, more a function of Chinese history and culture than in the color of the flag.

There have been plenty of other countries which were not communist even in name that exercise a similar degree of control. Singapore comes to mind. South Korea in the 1950s and 1960s was a very strongly governed country which did not tolerate much variation in the public sphere or in a number of activities most of us would consider private. Rhodesia and South Africa exercised some very severe forms in areas from where people could live and what jobs they could hold to marriage and access to the political process.

I say "government or other centers of power" because it does not have to be a government body. Tribal and Ecclesiastical groups can have just as much if not more power to enforce such standards in other circumstances. In some places the mosque is the only recognized source of authority either because of local piety or the complete breakdown of all other legitimate alternatives. In early Colonial New England the pulpit exercised Taliban-like control over the citizenry. In others economic actors like companies and consortia can have tremendous direct power over what people do, who they vote for and so on. In Company towns with Company stores in 19th and early 20th century America every aspect of personal and public life was dictated by the one source of local power, the company (usually mining) which ran the town.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Thanks and I agree with that too.

On a related note I believe Singapore has close to zero unemployment, close zero homeless and an incredibly low crime rate.

Of course it could all just be the heat.. damned equator

But I am now off topic, my apologies

 

[tellner]

When you think about it that whole "collective ownership of the means of production", "labor is entitled to the value that it adds" or even these hoary old plans which I dug up somewhere are pretty much a dead issue in China today...

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes. Nope.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. True to some degree, but not nearly as much as it used to be.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance. Hah!
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. OK, but that's not exactly a Commie-only thing. Kings and dictators have always done that.
5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly. As if
6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state. Control of certain aspects, but not ownership. Certainly less than in Mao's day.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. Welcome to modern agriculture all over the world. We may yet regret it.
8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. See comments on #2 and #5. The May 24th Camps and the State as the only employer are long gone.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country. Yes, like everywhere else in the world. And nope, not at all. Besides, Marx and Engels never did get that whole transportation thing.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc. In theory, but increasingly less so. Yes, and that's one of the good things about well-regulated capitalist economies with strong labor movements. I know that some schools in China do this which helps lower wages in areas where workers get uppity.

In other words, if Karl and Fred were giving out grades modern China would fail at Communism

 

[Xue Sheng]

When you think about it that whole "collective ownership of the means of production", "labor is entitled to the value that it adds" or even these hoary old plans which I dug up somewhere are pretty much a dead issue in China today...

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes. Nope.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. True to some degree, but not nearly as much as it used to be.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance. Hah!
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. OK, but that's not exactly a Commie-only thing. Kings and dictators have always done that.
5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly. As if
6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state. Control of certain aspects, but not ownership. Certainly less than in Mao's day.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. Welcome to modern agriculture all over the world. We may yet regret it.
8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. See comments on #2 and #5. The May 24th Camps and the State as the only employer are long gone.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country. Yes, like everywhere else in the world. And nope, not at all. Besides, Marx and Engels never did get that whole transportation thing.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc. In theory, but increasingly less so. Yes, and that's one of the good things about well-regulated capitalist economies with strong labor movements. I know that some schools in China do this which helps lower wages in areas where workers get uppity.

In other words, if Karl and Fred were giving out grades modern China would fail at Communism

Yup - by the numbers

1. Since just about everyone I know there owns 2 or 3 houses (all Bejingren by the way).

2. You got me here

3. aaaa no, there is a lot of things passing to children

4. These days in Beijing they are building high rise Condos specifically for foreigners

5. OK Banks in Beijing can be a nightmare especially when it comes to how much they let you withdraw but I have only had one or two problems

6. Oh god yes… MUCH less then Mao’s day and let me tell you those illegal 3 wheeled, home made taxi things can be downright terrifying. But all of the legal cab drivers must now speak enough English to talk to Americans.

7. Does pollution count

8. Yup long gone.

9. Hell yeah, Use to be cities were in rings, inside city next homes next farms today in Beijing I dare anyone to tell me where the various circles are by looking at them. Per my wife not to long ago the Summer Palace was in the Countryside... HA... check it out today.

10. Here is where it gets touchy in any Chinese city; residents yes people that are not residents, particularly those form the countryside no.