Video about the science of stretching

[ETinCYQX]

I find that to be an interesting statement. Do you mean that you were injuring yourself when trying to stretch for the splits? Is "happier" due in part to being now able to meet your goals?

No injuries.

I spend the time I would have spent doing intensive stretching working on mobility, GPP, and strength training. As a result, I move much better and more effectively. Foam rolling and dynamic mobility work has paid dividends, stretching to do the splits really hasn't.

Happier wasn't a word I used but sure, I'm happier because I'm healthier and more athletic.

 

[Cyriacus]

I wasnt going to comment, but after reading ETinCYQX's reply...
Deciding to stop stretching and doing splits is perhaps one of the smarter things ive done. It wasnt deliberate right away. I caught a cold/bug/something and had to stop for over a month. After that month of not stretching or doing splits, i found that it was easier to use less energy to do more (im sure theres better words than that).

At the same time, i suspect it differs from person to person. Ive known people who cant stop preaching the benefits of stretching, so theres gotta be something to it. I just got more out of not doing it any more. Im just kinda happy im not the only person whos had that result.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

Happier wasn't a word I used but sure, I'm happier because I'm healthier and more athletic.

Sorry, I misread "healthier" for "happier".

By mobility, are you referring to joints? I go to yoga and pigeon pose is a common "stretch". Most of the women can bend the front leg inwards (pointing towards the side wall) much more than me; I am pretty much only able to fold it under (pointing more towards the back wall than the side wall).

 

[SahBumNimRush]

I think it is important that we have an agreed upon definition of mobility and flexibility.

Flexibility is often lumped in with mobility, just as strength is often lumped in with stability.

Flexibility: the ability to elongate a muscle, such as when the hamstrings are stretched during a forward bend.

Mobility: A broader concept, involving the muscle(s) and joint(s). It is a more inclusive term when considering movement.

These definitions are widely accepted in physical medicine, and I think are appropriate to support the discussion here. Therefore, ETinCYQX was more correct in his statement that Yoga is more mobility based, because the poses are meant to put multiple joints and muscles through a range of motion than mere static stretching of a single muscle group.

Strength: The ability to produce force or movement.

Stability: the ability to control force or movement.

In most cases, stability is a precursor to strength.

Gray Cook MPT and Mike Boyle CSCS both are experts in this field. Here is an interesting approach to thinking about these concepts from a Joint by Joint perspective of the body:

http://graycookmovement.com/?p=118

and a follow up:

http://graycookmovement.com/?p=119

 

[ETinCYQX]

Sorry, I misread "healthier" for "happier".

By mobility, are you referring to joints? I go to yoga and pigeon pose is a common "stretch". Most of the women can bend the front leg inwards (pointing towards the side wall) much more than me; I am pretty much only able to fold it under (pointing more towards the back wall than the side wall).

Over simplified, but yes. Mobility in joints, flexibility in muscles is an ok definition. I can get about 90% to the side wall in Pigeon but it's definitely more work for my hip joint than any particular muscle, and the benefit I see is in my hip mobility, not my flexibility. Hip mobility is a big deal for a martial artist. Maybe it's prudent to point out that I usually do hot yoga (105 degree room) and maybe it's a warmup factor, but I just tried it "cold" and it didn't change much.

I think it is important that we have an agreed upon definition of mobility and flexibility.

Flexibility is often lumped in with mobility, just as strength is often lumped in with stability.

Flexibility: the ability to elongate a muscle, such as when the hamstrings are stretched during a forward bend.

Mobility: A broader concept, involving the muscle(s) and joint(s). It is a more inclusive term when considering movement.

These definitions are widely accepted in physical medicine, and I think are appropriate to support the discussion here. Therefore, ETinCYQX was more correct in his statement that Yoga is more mobility based, because the poses are meant to put multiple joints and muscles through a range of motion than mere static stretching of a single muscle group.

Strength: The ability to produce force or movement.

Stability: the ability to control force or movement.

In most cases, stability is a precursor to strength.

Gray Cook MPT and Mike Boyle CSCS both are experts in this field. Here is an interesting approach to thinking about these concepts from a Joint by Joint perspective of the body:

http://graycookmovement.com/?p=118

and a follow up:

http://graycookmovement.com/?p=119

This was the way I understood flexibility vs. mobility.

The stability vs. strength difference is one of the big differences in barbell training vs machines, like a freeweight squat vs a hack squat or smith machine.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

If I could wish one single piece of exercise equipment out of existence, it wouldn't be the thigh master, it would definitely be the smith machine. There is absolutely no good use for that piece of equipment IMO.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

I included the terms stability and strength into this discussion of flexibility and mobility because they are all involved when it comes to movement.

Here's Dr. Mark Cheng discussing the differences. For those of you who are not familiar with Dr. Cheng, he is an editor for BB Magazine, a black belt, doctor of oriental medicine and acupuncturist, former Senior RKC instructor, current Senior SFT instructor, and FMS/ SFMA instructor. The man knows what he's talking about!

[video=youtube_share;tzTrCH6dw4c]http://youtu.be/tzTrCH6dw4c[/video]

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

There is absolutely no good use for that piece of equipment IMO.

I like it for chin-ups. And also, "I can bench 2 plates a side!" - I just don't say it's on the smith machine where the bar is counter-weighted!

 

[ETinCYQX]

If I could wish one single piece of exercise equipment out of existence, it wouldn't be the thigh master, it would definitely be the smith machine. There is absolutely no good use for that piece of equipment IMO.

Coat rack...

 

[Rumy73]

No injuries.

I spend the time I would have spent doing intensive stretching working on mobility, GPP, and strength training. As a result, I move much better and more effectively. Foam rolling and dynamic mobility work has paid dividends, stretching to do the splits really hasn't.

Happier wasn't a word I used but sure, I'm happier because I'm healthier and more athletic.

You ignored my point. You quit the doing the splits, that is your call. However, it is likely you were not doing them effectively and therefore had little success.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

I spend the time I would have spent doing intensive stretching working on mobility, GPP, and strength training. As a result, I move much better and more effectively.

In what ways do you find increased mobility advantageous? For me, I notice my lack of hip mobility in a twist kick (which isn't really done in WTF/KKW clubs) and maybe spinning hook kicks. What have you found for yourself with increased mobility?

 

[SahBumNimRush]

To throw my .02 in on the matter.. .

Increased hip mobility has greatly improved my low cat stance (Kong Sang Kun/Kanku/Kusanku)

Note movement at 33:44

However, my biggest draw back at this point in my life is scar tissue from a torn groin/hamstring muscle that happened back in 1999. My right leg side kick is well over my head, but my left leg side kick is chin level on a good day.. .

So I think that focusing on both mobility and flexibility is important, as a martial artist.

 

[ETinCYQX]

In what ways do you find increased mobility advantageous? For me, I notice my lack of hip mobility in a twist kick (which isn't really done in WTF/KKW clubs) and maybe spinning hook kicks. What have you found for yourself with increased mobility?

My round kick is much higher and faster, and my spinning hook kick like you said is much easier to throw. It also offsets the amount of weight training I do, it stops certain things from being painful.

 

[ETinCYQX]

You ignored my point. You quit the doing the splits, that is your call. However, it is likely you were not doing them effectively and therefore had little success.

Your point was that flexibility and mobility are allied. This is the first you've had to say about me doing the splits.

I was doing them the way every good sport school seems to. Stretching 6 days a week and warming up first, progressively loaded like training any physical capability. It's not a question of injury or pain, it's a question of value. Doing the splits does not have enough value to waste that much time on when the real question is joint mobility, not muscle flexibility. While they aren't mutually exclusive, I would much rather squat 500 pounds than do the splits so that's what I spend my time on. All I need is to be able to kick to the head. I can do that quite easily with a couple of mobility sessions a day.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

...All I need is to be able to kick to the head. I can do that quite easily with a couple of mobility sessions a day.

A couple A DAY? Not sure if you mean A WEEK.... a couple times per day seems like a lot.

 

[ETinCYQX]

A couple A DAY? Not sure if you mean A WEEK.... a couple times per day seems like a lot.

It does, doesn't it. It isn't as bad as it sounds though and a couple times a day certainly isn't necessary, aside from maybe the corrective phase for someone with almost no mobility, which was me a few months ago. I've said it before, it doesn't matter if you can squat 1000lbs. If you can't apply that strength and do all of the stuff people do normally, it's not being strong imho.

I use this as a warmup for my weight training work, which is done around 7 A.M after I have some food and water, and it gets heat into my joints and eliminates any stiffness.

The Agile 8

1. Foam roll your IT band — Start just below your hip and roll up and down to your (outer) mid-thigh ten to fifteen times, focusing on any tight spots. Then perform ten to fifteen "rolls" starting at your (outer) mid-thigh and rolling all the way down to the outside of your knee. Again, focus on the tight areas.


2. Foam roll your adductors — Start just below the crease of your hip and roll up and down your (inner) mid-thigh ten to fifteen times, focusing on any tight spots. Then perform ten to fifteen "rolls" starting at your (inner) mid-thigh and rolling down to the inside of your knee. Again, focus on the tight areas.


3. Glute/piriformis myofacsial release with a tennis ball — Take the tennis ball and sit on one your left butt cheek with a slight tilt. Cross your left leg. Roll for 30 seconds or so. Switch cheeks and repeat. Feel free to cry.


4. Rollovers into "V" sits — Perform ten reps.*


5. Fire hydrant circles — Perform ten forward circles and ten backward circles with each leg.*


6. Mountain climbers — 20 total reps.*


7. Groiners — Perform ten reps. Hold the last rep for ten seconds. Make sure to push your knees out with your upper arms while dropping your butt down.*


8. Static hip flexor stretch — Perform 3 sets of 10 seconds on each leg. Complete all three sets on one side before moving to the other.

Copied from here: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online...francos_training_rules_for_washedup_meatheads

The link includes a video showing how to do some of the exercises.

And I foam roll and do a couple of his stretches before I hop in the shower before work, regardless of whether I trained that morning or not. That's a second session. And once again night time, either the Agile 8 listed above or a yoga session. So about three times a day. It started because I couldn't be convinced that I couldn't be ridiculously strong and still athletic enough to do taekwondo, cycling, or anything else I wanted to do, and I've kept at it because it makes recovery so easy and keeps me feeling good. It isn't a big investment, 3x a day will take 30 minutes total, and it's become part of my ritual. If I were to teach again, I'd do this first thing in my adult classes.

I can't find it but I definitely suggest checking out Joe DeFranco's Simple 6 for the upper body as well. When I get home I will type it up again if you guys don't come across it first.

EDIT: Here's a video of both. http://www.diystrengthtraining.com/...ups-to-avoid-injuries-agile-8-and-simple-six/

 

[SahBumNimRush]

IMO, those mobility drills are all valuable, with the exception of rolling the IT band. Rolling the IT band is a bit of a controversy right now. Some say roll it, others recommend not rolling it.

Here's my take on it, for what it's worth. The IT band is a combination of a tendon (the muscle is the tensor fascia latae) and the thickest part of the retinaculum (the sleeve of connective tissue that surrounds the thigh, and as such it is not as elastic as muscle tissue. Connective tissue is more plastic than elastic. Therefore, your time is better spent rolling the TFL, Gluteus Medius and Gluteus Minimus muscles.

Again, there are strong arguments on both sides of the fence, but I have personally found better results rolling the above mentioned muscles rather than rolling the tendon.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

I've said it before, it doesn't matter if you can squat 1000lbs. If you can't apply that strength and do all of the stuff people do normally, it's not being strong imho.

You must be able to read my mind! Here is one of my favourite conversations from the gym:

Bodybuilder: Oh man, my knees are so sore.
Me: Why's that? Do you have knee problems?
Bodybuilder: A little. But yesterday I worked legs so hard. I did really heavy squats, then did 5 sets of hacksquats with 600 pounds! Man, it was such an amazing workout! I barely could walk to the bathroom this morning, my knees were so sore! I almost had to crawl!

Meanwhile, I was thinking "My 65 year old mother gets out of bed in the morning and goes up and down the stairs with no problem. In all common sense, she has better fitness!"

I'll add my 2nd favourite gym conversation (different bodybuilder)

Bodybuilder: Ug, my shoulder is sore.
Me: How long has it been sore?
Bodybuilder:2 years.
Me: What makes it sore?
Bodybuilder:Bench press
Me: What are you doing today?
Bodybuilder:Bench press
Me: Maybe you need to stop benching to let it heal.
Bodybuilder:Yeah, I know, but I don't want my chest to get smaller.

 

[ETinCYQX]

I've been afflicted with DOMS a couple of times myself. Rolling helps, mobility work helps, but especially in the non-training season where I'm going hard to make a serious change, it's unavoidable.

Shoulder injuries on bench monkeys is like...busted toes on taekwondoin. Ubiquitous.