Unpatriotic?

[Tgace]

Liberals ARE unpatriotic.

America is stuck in a dysfunctional relationship with its Liberal establishment. Like a drunk at the trailer court who does nothing but insult and abuse his wife, Liberals are trying to make America afraid to abandon them. Just like the drunk, the Liberals claim that they love America. But, if this is what they call love, we do not need it. The Democrats are screaming about being patriotic just because they are not, and they do not want anyone to acknowledge it. To do so would end any chance of gaining the coveted strangle hold on power that they so desperately crave.

*The opinions of the author are not necessarily the poinions of the poster. At least not 100% that is....

 

[MisterMike]

100 % mine :2xBird2:

 

[TaiChiTJ]

Here is a statment by a Democrat I agree with:

For of those to whom much is given, much is required. And when at some future date the high court of history sits in judgment on each one of us--recording whether in our brief span of service we fulfilled our responsibilities to the state--our success or failure, in whatever office we may hold, will be measured by the answers to four questions:

First, were we truly men of courage--with the courage to stand up to one's enemies--and the courage to stand up, when necessary, to one's associates--the courage to resist public pressure, as well as private greed?
​

Secondly, were we truly men of judgment--with perceptive judgment of the future as well as the past--of our own mistakes as well as the mistakes of others--with enough wisdom to know that we did not know, and enough candor to admit it?
​

Third, were we truly men of integrity--men who never ran out on either the principles in which they believed or the people who believed in them--men who believed in us--men whom neither financial gain nor political ambition could ever divert from the fulfillment of our sacred trust?
​

Finally, were we truly men of dedication--with an honor mortgaged to no single individual or group, and compromised by no private obligation or aim, but devoted solely to serving the public good and the national interest.
​

 

[Tgace]

http://shinbone.home.att.net/defobia.htm
A couple lines later, she asks herself, "Am I proud to be an American?" Her answer: "No. I am ashamed of the path we have taken to war." That hardly suffices as an explanation, because foreign policy disagreements do not directly translate into a lack of pride in one's country. After all, Francis Scott Key disapproved of the War of 1812, but was still moved to write The Star-Spangled Banner by the American soldiers' heroic defense of Fort McHenry. The mantra of today's dissenters is that they "support the troops" while opposing the war, but you don't see them writing songs in celebration of American military heroism.

If we were to disagree with Roome and inform her that she's being unpatriotic, the people at USA Today would surely frown on us. Like the professor says, calling someone unpatriotic is divisive. Moreover, it's new! Never, until this new, intolerant age of ours, have people lacking pride in their country been called unpatriotic. In politically correct mushspeak, Roome is just a different kind of patriot. You know, the kind of patriot who is ashamed of her country. Sure, it's a contradiction, but that's what makes "critical patriots" complex, unlike those simple-minded "devout" and "symbolic" patriots whose devotion to America is unambiguous.

 

[heretic888]

Personally, I am of the opinion that patriotism is best reserved for the ideals and values that a nation is supposed to represent. Not the status quo, the political party in power, or the current presidential administration.

Elsewise, you have not patriotism but jingoism.

 

[Marginal]

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_86_4004501,00.html

Pretty much sums up the unpat barkers particular mode of thought and the underlying motivations.

 

[Andrew Green]

So patriotism is when everyone thinks alike, doesn't oppose their governments decissions, and all supports a single political party.

Guess under that definition I will never be a patriot...

So if the Democrats get elected next round, does that make all the republicans unpatriotic America haters?

The wife analogy is flawed... severly. It might work in a non-democratic society, but the whole point of democracy is to avoid that kind of thinking. To give people the voice to complain about the way things are done and try to make them better.

Let's do it with a car and see how it works.

It's leaking fluid, but lets not say anything cause we love it. If we said something and tried to fix it that would show that we dislike it.

Yes I know the seat belts are missing, but it's my car and I love it. It's a good car, the best in fact so quit pointing out it doesn't have seat belts nothing can be done, that's just the way it is.

I know the breaks failed last week, but they are working now. I see no reason to have it checked out and do repairs, this is my beloved car and I am not saying anything mean about it, like "The breaks have a bad track record"

 

[Tgace]

I know, lets take the car to the park and let my buddies jump up and down on it and hit it with baseball bats. Its contributing to the pollution of the world, animals were probably used in tests during its development, the money spent on it went to support the industrial hemogony and Bush and his Oil cronies. Its also not fair that I was able to have a car in the first place when so many of my oppressed and downtrodden countrymen arent able to have a car at all. After we are done with it lets break it up and sell it for scrap, we can donate the money to some good causes like PETA or Earth First (nothing to do with the military though, those warmongers). I also believe that I saw a shot of that car in Michael Moores latest "documentary".


Damn thing never worked right in the first place.....

 

[Tgace]

Now if I only had one of those neat little european jobs.....

 

[Andrew Green]

Well that certainly made sense and cleared up your argument...

 

[Tgace]

The thing I find interesting in this thread and in the "Hate America" thread is the reaction of some of the posters. Make a vauge "liberals are...." or "Democrats are..." comment and see how many people take personal offense. While I may hold conservative views, I dont really identitfy with the conservative party. Call conservatives whatever you want, I may argue with you but I dont take personal offense until someone takes a personal shot.

Funny how many people say "I take offense at you calling ME unpatriotic!".

 

[sgtmac_46]

So patriotism is when everyone thinks alike, doesn't oppose their governments decissions, and all supports a single political party.

Guess under that definition I will never be a patriot...

So if the Democrats get elected next round, does that make all the republicans unpatriotic America haters?

The wife analogy is flawed... severly. It might work in a non-democratic society, but the whole point of democracy is to avoid that kind of thinking. To give people the voice to complain about the way things are done and try to make them better.

Let's do it with a car and see how it works.

It's leaking fluid, but lets not say anything cause we love it. If we said something and tried to fix it that would show that we dislike it.

Yes I know the seat belts are missing, but it's my car and I love it. It's a good car, the best in fact so quit pointing out it doesn't have seat belts nothing can be done, that's just the way it is.

I know the breaks failed last week, but they are working now. I see no reason to have it checked out and do repairs, this is my beloved car and I am not saying anything mean about it, like "The breaks have a bad track record"

Nah, see, that's what i'm talking about.

Me telling my wife "Hey, honey, I really love you, lets go to a gym and both of us get in shape" is a loving statement. Me telling my wife, "Honey you're a fat cow, and a slob, and you can't really do anything right, you really need to change.....HEY, why are you mad at me, you know I love you. Don't I have the right to point out your flaws?" is not about love, it's about contempt.

In addition, I already covered your "If the democrats get elected next round" question. If I hear a right winger tell me he hates America, he's an idiot too.

 

[Tgace]

I was none too pleased with Clinton....loved my country as much then as now.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Personally, I am of the opinion that patriotism is best reserved for the ideals and values that a nation is supposed to represent. Not the status quo, the political party in power, or the current presidential administration.

I would amend this to read:

"Personally, I am of the opinion that patriotism is best reserved for THE INDIVIDUAL'S ideals and values of what his nation is supposed to represent. Not the status quo, the political party in power, or the current presidential administration."

Without that amendment, the statement leaves room for the status quo's definition of what patriotism ought to be.

I do not, for a moment, think that MisterMike, TGace, or any of the other conservatives here are unpatriotic...though some or all of them think me so. Indeed, I think they're strongly patriotic. I simply don't agree with much of their political ideaology.

Look at this, from TGace:

The thing I find interesting in this thread and in the "Hate America" thread is the reaction of some of the posters. Make a vauge "liberals are...." or "Democrats are..." comment and see how many people take personal offense. While I may hold conservative views, I dont really identitfy with the conservative party. Call conservatives whatever you want, I may argue with you but I dont take personal offense until someone takes a personal shot.


The reason for the reaction is simple. It paints liberalism with the broad brush of innaccurate stereotype, baits the liberals who don't fit your definition, and generally fails the most simple tests of logic. You write:

The thing I find interesting in this thread and in the "Hate America" thread is the reaction of some of the posters. Make a vauge "liberals are...." or "Democrats are..." comment and see how many people take personal offense. While I may hold conservative views, I dont really identitfy with the conservative party. Call conservatives whatever you want, I may argue with you but I dont take personal offense until someone takes a personal shot.

Funny how many people say "I take offense at you calling ME unpatriotic!".

You strongly suggest we aren't patriotic, and then seem shocked when we take umbrage to it. Suggesting we are not patriots is indeed, as you would call it, "a personal shot."

You write:

"The mantra of today's dissenters is that they "support the troops" while opposing the war, but you don't see them writing songs in celebration of American military heroism."

I agree with you that they should...I'd love to see someone write a song about squandered heroism and valor, life and limb, all spent for a shining lie. Good idea there. I'll pass it on. We have two wars fitting that description to work with now...that should give rise to a number of verses. I think some may be out there right now.

The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines "patriot" as "one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests." There are those of us here, confessedly liberal, who do not believe that jingoism, bigotry and racism are properly representative of this country's ideals...ideals that are ostensibly the infrastructrure of its moral authority. We do not think manufacturing a lie to invade another country are in its best interests, for instance.

I don't think its in the best interests of this country to have a President who can't rub a verb and a noun together without there being a train wreck, and I believe that having such a dunce representing us globally undermines our authority.

I don't believe its in the best interests of this country to marginalize Osama Bin Laden (Bush's words, not mine) and leave him running the hills of Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Supporting this country's authority and interests doesn't mean supporting the administration. If that were true, then any criticism of Clinton...or indeed ANY sitting President would be considered unpatriotic. Supporting this country's authority and interests do not mean unquestioningly supporting its actions abroad, its Supreme Court decisions, the actions of Congress or of the Cabinet. If I am wrong, then you qualify as unpatriotic by that yardstick, certainly...or have or will.


Regards,


Steve

 

[Marginal]

The thing I find interesting in this thread and in the "Hate America" thread is the reaction of some of the posters. Make a vauge "liberals are...." or "Democrats are..." comment and see how many people take personal offense.

Ah. So you are just trolling for flames.

 

[still learning]

Hello, It is easy to mention the wrong/bad things in America. We are not a perfect country.

Most of you will agree it is still better than most other countries. The Question now becomes? What can we do to make it better?

One way to be a good person and help others become one too! Isn't it like martial arts trying to do...................Aloha

 

[Phoenix44]

BTW, some of us believe that Mr. Bush is unpatriotic, because we believe his policies have undermined this country and what it stands for.

But it would never occur to me to say that "All Republicans are unpatriotic," or "All Conservatives are unpatriotic," or "ALL" of anything are unpatriotic, unless you happen to be an organization with the stated purpose of overthrowing the government. I mean, Timothy McVeigh was unpatriotic. We don't want to overthrow anything. We just want to hold our elected representatives accountable. And hopefully vote them out when they don't represent us.

 

[heretic888]

I would amend this to read:

"Personally, I am of the opinion that patriotism is best reserved for THE INDIVIDUAL'S ideals and values of what his nation is supposed to represent. Not the status quo, the political party in power, or the current presidential administration."

Without that amendment, the statement leaves room for the status quo's definition of what patriotism ought to be.

Meh. Picky, picky Steve. :wink1:

Otherwise, a very nice post. I agree fully.