Universality of American kenpo ....

[Goldendragon7]

As rcrobertson suggested.... let's examine this..

What are some of the "Universal Factors" that we love in American Kenpo over other systems....

Just to start off here are a few examples...

Personally I love all the Kenpo tools which allow me to be what ever I want to be....

If I want to focus in on Kicking, we have all you could desire...

Our pragmatic approach to Self Defense is second to none...

If freestyle is your bag.... well, no one is stopping you from becoming the next world champ...

more...

:asian:

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
As rcrobertson suggested.... let's examine this..

What are some of the "Universal Factors" that we love in American Kenpo over other systems....

Just to start off here are a few examples...

Personally I love all the Kenpo tools which allow me to be what ever I want to be....

If I want to focus in on Kicking, we have all you could desire...

Our pragmatic approach to Self Defense is second to none...

If freestyle is your bag.... well, no one is stopping you from becoming the next world champ...

more...



:asian:

I agree about the universality of the art but largely in the adaptation qualities by way of concepts, theories and principles. Impossible to know everything and some arts specialize (primarily in the sporting venue) some things that oppose self defense. I have never seen a competitor fight the way I envision Kenpo. One minor exception would be Hackney- he did throw some rapid combo's (missed) but they had the flavor.

Annd on the other foot/hand it is what the teacher teaches the student that allow he/she to become self realized. I am grateful to my teacher for giving me that- You yourself Mr. Conatser gave me some invaluable help and hints as well as The Mad Kenpo Scientist. It allowed for some major growth and debate...

:asian:

 

[Brother John]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
As rcrobertson suggested.... let's examine this..

What are some of the "Universal Factors" that we love in American Kenpo over other systems....

I'd really like to participate some in this, but I'm not so sure what you mean by 'universal factors'. Could you clarify?
Thanks
Your Brother
John

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Brother John
I'd really like to participate some in this, but I'm not so sure what you mean by 'universal factors'. Could you clarify?
Thanks
Your Brother
John

Universal factors are just what they are. A common example is marriage of gravity. It is working in every movement whether you use it or not although more easily understood in a standing application. Universal to all arts, athletics, walking, breathing...

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by Rainman
Universal factors are just what they are. A common example is marriage of gravity. It is working in every movement whether you use it or not although more easily understood in a standing application. Universal to all arts, athletics, walking, breathing...

Oh, you mean like a broader generalized principle?

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
Oh, you mean like a broader generalized principle?

Well more like universal truths- laws of the universe govern human movement- hence poeple using words like rotational force, gravitational marriage etc. So a universal truth is not a general or vague principle... Maybe a higher level of some peoples ideas of master keys. Once the equation formula is being used on the laws of the fist instead of the movements of the fist then a punch is just a punch. What changes are the different principles for different situatations. Still a punch though if it lands on the front of the first 2 knuckles.

You can alter rotational force of the reverse punch- mayabe ad some quickness but you sacrifice power by (for example rotating only your trunk). So how is this universal? Torque is a universal conductor of power directly related to inertia. Inertia is a universal law and torque is a sub cat thereof so it's existence cannot be denied but can be manipulated by the American Kenpo Student for all kinds of gains... of course controlling an opponent can have a direct corellation to the techniques already learned.

JMO
RM

 

[kenpo12]

Rainman,

Uh, ya might want to speak english instead of double talk. Your lack of spelling ability is killing your ability to sound as smart as you are trying to come off.

 

[Bill Lear]

Originally posted by kenpo12
Rainman,

Uh, ya might want to speak english instead of double talk. Your lack of spelling ability is killing your ability to sound as smart as you are trying to come off.

I 100% agree with you.

Rainman,

It seems that you would have better luck conveying your thoughts in laymens terms rather than trying to write like a rocket scientist. Just a thought.

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by kenpo12
Rainman,

Uh, ya might want to speak english instead of double talk. Your lack of spelling ability is killing your ability to sound as smart as you are trying to come off.

Why not pick a point and attack the argument instead of making it personal? Don't bother explaining I know why, you have nothing to contribute otherwise you would have.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by Rainman
Well more like universal truths- laws of the universe govern human movement- hence poeple using words like rotational force, gravitational marriage etc. So a universal truth is not a general or vague principle... Maybe a higher level of some peoples ideas of master keys. Once the equation formula is being used on the laws of the fist instead of the movements of the fist then a punch is just a punch. What changes are the different principles for different situatations. Still a punch though if it lands on the front of the first 2 knuckles.

You can alter rotational force of the reverse punch- mayabe ad some quickness but you sacrifice power by (for example rotating only your trunk). So how is this universal? Torque is a universal conductor of power directly related to inertia. Inertia is a universal law and torque is a sub cat thereof so it's existence cannot be denied but can be manipulated by the American Kenpo Student for all kinds of gains... of course controlling an opponent can have a direct corellation to the techniques already learned.

JMO
RM

I would avoid words like truths to explain your points because it suggests that others peoples points might fall short of truth. Besides truth is relative

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
I would avoid words like truths to explain your points because it suggests that others peoples points might fall short of truth. Besides truth is relative

O no wonder, truths mean Law. Like a universal law. Cause and effect is a universal law. What that mean is this particular property or law or truth is workable for say, a punch to the lower abdoman (bend over= cause punch, effect bend over) out of gas car stops...(cause- no fuel, effect- engine stops running)... O' yeah forgot to tell you, oil slicks and burnout marks don't make a lawn

 

[kenpo12]

Why not pick a point and attack the argument instead of making it personal? Don't bother explaining I know why, you have nothing to contribute otherwise you would have.

I would attack your argument, except your writing is incoherent. I'm not trying to make it personal, it's just damn near impossible to sort through the double talk and figure out what you're writing. You have all kinds of spelling errors and you've used all kinds of words out of context so I really have no clue what you're trying to say.

Now as far as contribution to the thread, the universal factor that I appreciate is no matter what other art/system I look at I can see kenpo in it, so I'm rarely ever a "fish out of water" so to speak when training with others. It makes it very easy to see a technique from another system and apply it to kenpo. Even though kenpo might not have covered every last bit of fighting/self defense the kenpo design makes it very easy to fill in the gaps yourself with the tools kenpo provides.

Matt

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by Rainman
O no wonder, truths mean Law. Like a universal law. Cause and effect is a universal law. What that mean is this particular property or law or truth is workable for say, a punch to the lower abdoman (bend over= cause punch, effect bend over) out of gas car stops...(cause- no fuel, effect- engine stops running)... O' yeah forgot to tell you, oil slicks and burnout marks don't make a lawn

Sure because law means parameters defined. Its whom is doing the defining and for what purpose that causes so many problems. Oil slicks and burnout marks are landscaping to us creative types

 

[Bill Lear]

Originally posted by Rainman

O no wonder, truths mean Law. Like a universal law. Cause and effect is a universal law. What that mean is this particular property or law or truth is workable for say, a punch to the lower abdoman (bend over= cause punch, effect bend over) out of gas car stops...(cause- no fuel, effect- engine stops running)... O' yeah forgot to tell you, oil slicks and burnout marks don't make a lawn

The truth, as it is told, comes in many colors.
The truth, experienced, is clear.

I would have to say that the terms truth, and scientific law are not at all one in the same.

Truth in it's purest from is an accurate description or depiction of an event.

A Scientific Law on the other hand is an absolute.

You and I could walk into a carnival fun house one of these days and see the same exact things, although our impressions/expereinces would probably differ. Hence, we would have differing stories, and different truths.

I think the same applies to kenpo, hence the need for tailoring, but I could be wrong.
:shrug:

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by kenpo12
I would attack your argument, except your writing is incoherent. I'm not trying to make it personal, it's just damn near impossible to sort through the double talk and figure out what you're writing. You have all kinds of spelling errors and you've used all kinds of words out of context so I really have no clue what you're trying to say.

Now as far as contribution to the thread, the universal factor that I appreciate is no matter what other art/system I look at I can see kenpo in it, so I'm rarely ever a "fish out of water" so to speak when training with others. It makes it very easy to see a technique from another system and apply it to kenpo. Even though kenpo might not have covered every last bit of fighting/self defense the kenpo design makes it very easy to fill in the gaps yourself with the tools kenpo provides.

Matt

Then why respond to what I say with an attack on grammer instead of a question about a particular item. From where I sit you now have done the same thing twice. There are no words out of context and there is no double talk. Spelling errors and typos yes, got one of those ergonomic keyboards and haven't got the hang of it yet.

Where is the universal factor? What makes it very easy to see a technique from another system? What kenpo design?

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Bill Lear
The truth, as it is told, comes in many colors.
The truth, experienced, is clear.

I would have to say that the terms truth, and scientific law are not at all one in the same.

Truth in it's purest from is an accurate description or depiction of an event.

A Scientific Law on the other hand is an absolute.

You and I could walk into a carnival fun house one of these days and see the same exact things, although our impressions/expereinces would probably differ. Hence, we would have differing stories, and different truths.

I think the same applies to kenpo, hence the need for tailoring, but I could be wrong.
:shrug:

I agree that you are using truth and perception as the same thing.

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
Sure because law means parameters defined. Its whom is doing the defining and for what purpose that causes so many problems. Oil slicks and burnout marks are landscaping to us creative types

Well, you got me there on all accounts. But I will add defined and agreed upon by those doing the defining.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Bill Lear
Truth in it's purest from is an accurate description or depiction of an event.

A Scientific Law on the other hand is an absolute.

You and I could walk into a carnival fun house one of these days and see the same exact things, although our impressions/expereinces would probably differ. Hence, we would have differing stories, and different truths.

Scientists also see what they want/expect to see. Newton's Law F=ma is an excellent example of a scientific law that reflected what he expected, had a great 250 year run, and is now known to be absolutely, positively wrong. It's been supplanted by Einstein's laws--which conflict with the laws of quantum mechanics. Not both can be right. Western views on medicine make it hard to even see that accupuncture is working.

It's no different for scientists when they try to discern the truth than it is for others, except that they have a rigourous method of testing and refining their hypotheses. But scientific laws are over-turned all the time, and run the gamut from the quantitative/predictive like F=ma to the qualitative/descriptive like evolution. Science is influenced by peoples' views, as the growing fields of science studies/sociology of science/science and technology studies all indicate.

The question remains, Are there true, Platonic scientific laws out there that we are working to discover, or will anything made up by mankind always be an imperfect approxcimation of a world that is not necessarily governed by regular laws or by alws expressible in the language of mathematics?

 

[Bill Lear]

Originally posted by Rainman

I agree that you are using truth and perception as the same thing.

Please re-read this part of my post:

Truth in it's purest from is an accurate description or depiction of an event.

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Bill Lear
Please re-read this part of my post:

Truth in it's purest from is an accurate description or depiction of an event.

And?

The carnival part is also incorrect, we don't need to go to the fun house together we are already in the best one.