HooT
White Belt
is ninjutsu sorta the same as wing chun? as in strikes counter moves etc?
ummm
- Thread starter HooT
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Nope.
No, they're quite different.
newtothe dark
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Not even close
Aiki Lee
Master of Arts
They have no relationship whatsoever. Do you see some similarities in them that made you ask your question? If you are asking if ninjutsu has counter strikes then yes they do, but all martial arts have them.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Hi,
We'll go into a little detail so you have an idea of why you are getting the answers you are. To begin with, the similarities:
Wing Chun is said to have been developed by a nun named Ng Mui, who fled the Shaolin Temple after it was razed. She eventually taught her skills to a young woman named Wing Chun, and named her personnal style after her young student.
Withing Ninjutsu, the Gyokko Ryu is said to have been originally based on the martial skills of a Princess, or Lady-In-Waiting from the Tang Dynasty Court, later brought to Japan by Cho Gyokko (also known as Yo Gyokko, possibly one person, possibly a group).
So these two arts are virtually unique in Martial Arts in that they are originally developed by women, rather than men (and to clarify, many other systems have had female heads, most notably a number of Koryu systems of Naginatajutsu, such as Toda-ha Buko Ryu, Yoshin Ryu, and Tendo Ryu, but no others that I know of that were founded/developed by women).
Both Wing Chun and Gyokko Ryu teach that protecting the centre of your body is very important (within Wing Chun, the basic posture has your hands in the middle of your body, protecting your "centre-line", in Gyokko Ryu, most postures have one or both hands over your heart to protect it).
Both systems involve weaponry as well as unarmed combat, again the comparrison with Gyokko is probably best. Wing Chun teaches Butterfly Swords and Long Pole techniques, Gyokko Ryu was famous for it's sword, knife, and bo techniques. But they are used quite differently, and we'll deal with that soon.
The tactics used could be seen as similar, but the application rules this out. It woul be like saying that boxing and tae kwon do are the same because they both strike.
So now to the differences. First off, although I have focussed on Gyokko Ryu so far, that is only because it has the most (superficial, though they are) similarities to Wing Chun. They really are nothing alike.
Wing Chun postures are very upright, and feature a 50/50 weight distubution, wiht the body facing forward. The hands are kept central, and relatively close to your body, with one slightly forward. Ninjutsu postures are predominantly one foot in front, with your weight between 70/30 and 60/40 back, depending on the system and/or posture. One hand is often extended, with the other held back to guard, or be cocked for a strike.
From these postures, the movement is quite different. Wing Chun has very minimal footwork, relying on handwork to deflect/trap incoming strikes, and counter strike. Ninjutsu, on the other hand, utilises a greater focus on footwork, using principals of angling, and distancing to primarily evade incoming strikes and attacks, often with a damaging "blocking strike" to create an openning, and similar footwork utilised to enter and strike or grapple.
Wing Chun is a primarily striking system with a bit of grappling added in (usually refered to as "trapping"). Ninjutsu, being a Japanese art, has much more grappling involved, with a repetoire of throws, chokes, limb controls etc, as well as having a larger-than-typical focus on the striking side of the art.
With regard to the weaponry, the simple fact that we are comparing a Japanese system with a Chinese art lends itself to huge differences. Without going too much into it, Chinese weaponry tends towards faster movements with lighter weapons (due to lighter armour being worn), and the Japanese having heavier weapons tend toward larger, heavier actions to cut through the heavier armour. This is a generalisation, but is accurate enough for this purpose.
So, essentially, there are a few very superficial similarities, but no real connection or similarities for consideration. Hope this helps, and I'll post the same in your other thread.
We'll go into a little detail so you have an idea of why you are getting the answers you are. To begin with, the similarities:
Wing Chun is said to have been developed by a nun named Ng Mui, who fled the Shaolin Temple after it was razed. She eventually taught her skills to a young woman named Wing Chun, and named her personnal style after her young student.
Withing Ninjutsu, the Gyokko Ryu is said to have been originally based on the martial skills of a Princess, or Lady-In-Waiting from the Tang Dynasty Court, later brought to Japan by Cho Gyokko (also known as Yo Gyokko, possibly one person, possibly a group).
So these two arts are virtually unique in Martial Arts in that they are originally developed by women, rather than men (and to clarify, many other systems have had female heads, most notably a number of Koryu systems of Naginatajutsu, such as Toda-ha Buko Ryu, Yoshin Ryu, and Tendo Ryu, but no others that I know of that were founded/developed by women).
Both Wing Chun and Gyokko Ryu teach that protecting the centre of your body is very important (within Wing Chun, the basic posture has your hands in the middle of your body, protecting your "centre-line", in Gyokko Ryu, most postures have one or both hands over your heart to protect it).
Both systems involve weaponry as well as unarmed combat, again the comparrison with Gyokko is probably best. Wing Chun teaches Butterfly Swords and Long Pole techniques, Gyokko Ryu was famous for it's sword, knife, and bo techniques. But they are used quite differently, and we'll deal with that soon.
The tactics used could be seen as similar, but the application rules this out. It woul be like saying that boxing and tae kwon do are the same because they both strike.
So now to the differences. First off, although I have focussed on Gyokko Ryu so far, that is only because it has the most (superficial, though they are) similarities to Wing Chun. They really are nothing alike.
Wing Chun postures are very upright, and feature a 50/50 weight distubution, wiht the body facing forward. The hands are kept central, and relatively close to your body, with one slightly forward. Ninjutsu postures are predominantly one foot in front, with your weight between 70/30 and 60/40 back, depending on the system and/or posture. One hand is often extended, with the other held back to guard, or be cocked for a strike.
From these postures, the movement is quite different. Wing Chun has very minimal footwork, relying on handwork to deflect/trap incoming strikes, and counter strike. Ninjutsu, on the other hand, utilises a greater focus on footwork, using principals of angling, and distancing to primarily evade incoming strikes and attacks, often with a damaging "blocking strike" to create an openning, and similar footwork utilised to enter and strike or grapple.
Wing Chun is a primarily striking system with a bit of grappling added in (usually refered to as "trapping"). Ninjutsu, being a Japanese art, has much more grappling involved, with a repetoire of throws, chokes, limb controls etc, as well as having a larger-than-typical focus on the striking side of the art.
With regard to the weaponry, the simple fact that we are comparing a Japanese system with a Chinese art lends itself to huge differences. Without going too much into it, Chinese weaponry tends towards faster movements with lighter weapons (due to lighter armour being worn), and the Japanese having heavier weapons tend toward larger, heavier actions to cut through the heavier armour. This is a generalisation, but is accurate enough for this purpose.
So, essentially, there are a few very superficial similarities, but no real connection or similarities for consideration. Hope this helps, and I'll post the same in your other thread.
newtothe dark
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Mr Parker you never stop amasing me.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
You know, flattery will get you anything in the end... but to make sure, you meant "amazing", rather than "amassing", yeah? Just checking...
newtothe dark
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yes i just suck at spellin (that was on purpose) hehe
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newtothe dark
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Chris Parker gave a very informative post. But I would like to add that there are actually several kamae that have a 50/50 weight distribution. It sounds like Ichimonji was being described above. But I believe that posture's weight distribution can vary depending on the situation. 70/30, 60/40 and 50/50 would be the most common.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
True. Postures such as Hira Ichimonji, Jumonji etc are often 50/50 weight distrubution, and I have seen Gyokko Ryu taught as almost all postures with 50/50 (that said, Hira Ichmonji in Koto Ryu has you on one foot - and there is Hicho as well...). But, as said, I was mainly refering to a "typical" Ichimonji, or Seigan posture, as that is a posture I consider to be the most "classic" of the various kamae, the same way a forward, aggressive stance (zenkutsudachi) is the definitive karate posture, hanmi is the definitive aikido posture, and an orthodox high guard is the definitive boxing posture. They are not the only ones, just the easiest to understand an art from in very basic terms.
