UFC 95 Dan Hardy

[Tez3]

OH Y E S!!!

Told you so :ultracool

 

[terryl965]

OK what else hapened during the show?

 

[Tez3]

OK what else hapened during the show?

More of our guys won!
didn't post results as 'Clark Kent' had already done it.

http://www.mmaringreport.com/ufc-news/ufc-fight-night/ufc-95-report-2.html

One of the lads was at the UFC in the 'cheap seats' £100!! took photos which he's put up on the CW forum. Some nice pics.

http://www.cagewarriors.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34597

 

[Brian King]

Tez3 are the sanctioning rules different in the UK? I am not much of a MMA event fan (just not my thing) but watching many of the fights during UFC 95 the refs seemed to jump in and call the fight earlier than usual with many of the fighters complaining. Might be sour grapes on the fighters parts but there was a lot of that going on that night.
Hardy looked good. That fight ended in a blink.

Regards
Brian King

 

[jarrod]

awesome, congrats!

jf

 

[Tez3]

I suspect you are thinking about the Koscheck fight in particular? Marc Goddard the ref said Kos' eye were glazed and he wasn't 'able to defend himself intelligently' which is a basic rule in all promotions over here. We don't tend to like seeing people battered if they can't defend properly.
Marc is a very good ref, he's helped me a lot with my reffing.It's things like watching a fighters eyes and his smaller movements (Koschecks legs were stiff) that tell you when a fighter is not able to know what hes doing, the problem is that this can't be detected by the crowd or even the fighters themselves.

 

[Brian King]

“I suspect you are thinking about the Koscheck fight in particular?”

Yup that was one of the fights but mostly it was the sheer number of fighters that were complaining. It seemed much higher than usual to me. Sometimes there is one guy who complains vocally and argues with the officials while in the ring and perhaps another who complains by shaking his head and frowning while the other fighters arm is raised but in this particular UFC a lot of the fighters were vocal about the call. Again it might be my perception, as one fighter vocally complains and I then notice all the others cause now I am cued to it while watching the event kind of thing. I was wondering if since it was on for free over here in the States that perhaps the refs weren’t perhaps warned not to let things get too rough or perhaps the sanctioning rules and officials were ‘tougher’ in the name of safety over there.

“We don't tend to like seeing people battered if they can't defend properly.”

I understand that and the fine line that must be drawn. Many a fight has been won by the fighter getting battered but managing to pull something off when all seemed lost. Many a bruised and battered fighter has had their arm raised over their unmarked opponent. I like to see both the fighter given as much chance as he wants to win or to give up and the other fighter a chance to show he can finish the fight. This is what the fighters do and who they are and I guess what they would hope for. Too early of a stoppage seems to rob both of that opportunity. I understand that the fighters might not realize how battered they are but isn’t the corner allowed to throw in the towel anymore at these kinds of events? It just seemed so many of the fights ended that way with the ref jumping in and the ‘losing’ fighter going WTH/WTF?

Anyway glad some of Brits/Euros won their fights it seemed to matter to them and to the crowd that they ‘represent’ and all that.

Hope you do not mind me asking these questions Tez3. I know you are into this sport and up on all the rules and such. I just sometimes have a mild curiosity LOL not enough to go searching thru the many different fighting websites especially when here on MT we have those deeply involved and knowledgeable on the topic(s)

Thanks again
Regards
Brian King

 

[K831]

I actually thought this was a pretty good article on the subject, sherdog or not lol;

http://sherdog.com/news/articles/the-offense-of-intelligent-defense-16300

 

[Tez3]

I actually thought this was a pretty good article on the subject, sherdog or not lol;

http://sherdog.com/news/articles/the-offense-of-intelligent-defense-16300

That's a good intelligent article. Marc Goddard is also a fighter, he understands perfectly from all points of view how a fight should go.
Marc's record, he's fought some good guys!

http://www.mmauniverse.com/fighters/SS3580

 

[Brian King]

Thanks for the link and the background of the author. It helps knowing where the author is coming from. I will read the article tonight after work.

Regards
Brian King

 

[Tez3]

Quote from the Ref Marc Goddard. It was being discussed on another forum we all use about the stoppages, a couple of armchair critics were saying he shouldn't have stopped so soon, natable all the fighters on the forum stated plainly he was right. As Rosi Sexton said about stoppping a fight...a second too soon is prefable to a second too late.



Hi everyone.

A long time ago I decided that I would never again come onto a public forum to discuss my decisions [ you can thank some of the "serious" memebers of the board for that ] or offer any explanations as to why I do what I do. That decision will not change. On the flip side of that it is such a crying shame that many users of this board be deprived of my resource as an MMA referee at the highest level should the need for advice, explanation or discussion arise.

I take my role as referee on the Worlds greatest stage in MMA more serious than anyone I know. My make up wont allow me to give any less than 100% to anything that I commit to. The hard work, dedication and time that I had put into Mixed Martial Arts in the UK was repaid to me when I was selected for the UFC, and as such I offer no compromise to my position or integrity. This same level of commiment is extended to each and every show that I referee for here in the UK, again my make up wont allow anything less.

Thank you to all the understanding comments, and for those that may not can I please point you toward MMA Unlimited Magazine Issue 7 March 2009, Page 14.

Thanks again, hope to see you all around soon.

Marc.

 

[Brian King]

"a couple of armchair critics were saying he shouldn't have stopped so soon"

Have to admit that I do not consider myself a fan of these competitions as in knowing the all the fighters stats and who the referees are. I watch them now and then as we have students that come in asking about this or that and the events can be exciting. To be honest all the drama before the fight and after the fight seems so much like a macho excuse for a daytime soap opera that does nothing for me. So I guess that puts me in the armchair critic description. My comments on the stoppages during UFC 95 had to do with all the ‘fighters’ complaining while still in the ring. Their obvious complaints had me wondering if the rules and standards had been changed on them. If they were expecting to have the fight stopped at the first second of danger why all the complaining. If the complaints are not valid that puts the fighters into whiner territory and I do not think whiners last long in that game, but, maybe I am wrong?

From the article link posted by K831

“"Intelligent defense" has spread virally over the MMA landscape in the last four years or so. Unfortunately, like all viruses, it has mutated. Somewhere along the way, "intelligent defense" became disfigured. No longer does it describe a fighter acting in a way to minimize damage and actively compete in prizefight. Now it’s a mandate that a fighter never wobble, fall or roll precariously amidst attack. Falling inelegantly to the canvas and making googly eyes after getting clipped are now legitimate white flags and concessions of defeat. Don't spit venom toward the referees: They're stricken with this mutant strain of intelligent defense syndrome, and a cure is critical.”

And further into the article

“This idea isn't from some unattainable officiating utopia. You don't have to look further than UFC 95 to see a picture-perfect paragon of what I'm preaching. Marc Goddard's stoppage of the Evan Dunham-Per Eklund bout was precisely what I'm advocating: a fighter is badly dropped, lands awkwardly but is afforded the opportunity to show he can defend himself, and when subsequent strikes show he cannot, the bout is stopped. A referee need not stand by idly, waiting for the second coming of Sakuraba-Smirnovas, but to be overly officious with so much riding on the line for fighters is unconstructive and unconscionable.”

I have no idea really who the fighters named are (except Sakuraba) but judging from the article and judging from the fighters reactions during that UFC thing and that on Tez3’s fighter forum raising the issue enough that the ref guy had to post a reply, I am guessing that some changes have been made and that more will need to be made.

I do not have an answer being just an armchair critic LOL. I have no real interest in this profession/sport other than as a free market capitalist and somebody that does see a value in professional sports/entertainment socially. I was merely intrigued by the thought that the event being on ‘free TV’ and the sport trying so hard to go mainstream that the fighters might have been thrown under the bus and the additional thought that maybe it had nothing to do with being on TV but with different rules being in England and that the fighters were not properly prepared for the difference in standards. I am not prepared to assume that the fighters are whiners and poor losers, not at that level of competetion.

Not trying to stir a hornet’s nest just trying to understand a sport a bit better.

Regards
Brian King

 

[Sandstorm]

Yep, big congrats to DH and to Terry Etim. Shame about Neil Grove, but then a last minuite replacement can really alter ones mindset.

A bright future for the boys (and girls) of blighty:ultracool

 

[Tez3]

Have to admit that I do not consider myself a fan of these competitions as in knowing the all the fighters stats and who the referees are. I watch them now and then as we have students that come in asking about this or that and the events can be exciting. To be honest all the drama before the fight and after the fight seems so much like a macho excuse for a daytime soap opera that does nothing for me. So I guess that puts me in the armchair critic description. My comments on the stoppages during UFC 95 had to do with all the ‘fighters’ complaining while still in the ring. Their obvious complaints had me wondering if the rules and standards had been changed on them. If they were expecting to have the fight stopped at the first second of danger why all the complaining. If the complaints are not valid that puts the fighters into whiner territory and I do not think whiners last long in that game, but, maybe I am wrong?

From the article link posted by K831


And further into the article



I have no idea really who the fighters named are (except Sakuraba) but judging from the article and judging from the fighters reactions during that UFC thing and that on Tez3’s fighter forum raising the issue enough that the ref guy had to post a reply, I am guessing that some changes have been made and that more will need to be made.

I do not have an answer being just an armchair critic LOL. I have no real interest in this profession/sport other than as a free market capitalist and somebody that does see a value in professional sports/entertainment socially. I was merely intrigued by the thought that the event being on ‘free TV’ and the sport trying so hard to go mainstream that the fighters might have been thrown under the bus and the additional thought that maybe it had nothing to do with being on TV but with different rules being in England and that the fighters were not properly prepared for the difference in standards. I am not prepared to assume that the fighters are whiners and poor losers, not at that level of competetion.

Not trying to stir a hornet’s nest just trying to understand a sport a bit better.

Regards
Brian King

It had absolutely nothing to do with being on free television, for a lot of us here even the pay per view can be watched free if you know how lol! Thats the way it's run here and it's not the first UFC in the UK so the guys have had time to get used to it. I'm reffing fights on 7th March and as Marcs my mentor I will ref exactly the way he has and will continue to.
You get whiners and losers especially at a higher leel when there's more money, sponsorship and ego involved lol!

 

[Cette Hamster La]

I suspect you are thinking about the Koscheck fight in particular? Marc Goddard the ref said Kos' eye were glazed and he wasn't 'able to defend himself intelligently' which is a basic rule in all promotions over here. We don't tend to like seeing people battered if they can't defend properly.
Marc is a very good ref, he's helped me a lot with my reffing.It's things like watching a fighters eyes and his smaller movements (Koschecks legs were stiff) that tell you when a fighter is not able to know what hes doing, the problem is that this can't be detected by the crowd or even the fighters themselves.

This makes a lot of the stoppages that night make a lot more sense to me. There were no stoppages that were really outrageous as even Koschek was clearly done but they were generally a bit earlier than the norm for the UFC. It's really hard to imagine the ref not waiting for him to take at least one clean shot to the face to be sure on a card that was in the states. Might not be necessary but people have popped back from being every bit as knocked loopy as Koschek.

Can't say as I'm really convinced one way or another which methods better overall but I'd at least like to see consistency.

A bit off topic I know but Etim was absolutely dwarfing Cobb. He looked at least one full weight class larger.

 

[Tez3]

We usually have consistancy because on our shows we tend to only have one ref, maybe two at most and even then they've worked together enough times to have the same views on things.
The problem is of course like many sports, tennis when you have to judge by eye whether the ball is in or out, cricket when it's lbw, soccer when it may be a foul or not that what is shown on the action slo mo replay isn't what the judge or ref sees with his eyes at the time. In MMA the ref is closest to the fighter and can see those changes that mean the fighter is stunned. Marc said his eyes were glazed and thats enough to stop a fight, we don't punch a fighter in that state here.
We've never had a fighter die in this country and we aim to keep it that way, the worst injuries we've had here too is a broken leg and that was a pure accident. I can think of a couple of broken arms, fingers, hands but no brain injuries. We like the sport aspect not the brutality of standing there like boxers. If people don't like the sporting aspect and want a bloodfest they'll have to look somewhere other than our shows.

 

[Cette Hamster La]

Fair enough I can't say as any ones really in favour of extra traumatic brain injuries and no one can blame you for not wanting to cater to this guy.

Still it's going to leave some people a little cold when the standards change somewhat from location to location. Certainly no worse than when a set of fights is held at say a high altitude venue but then people manage to throw a fit about that pretty well too.