Traditional Weapons Training

[7starmantis]

How many of you train in traditional weapons such as the Monk Spade, or 9 ring sword, weapons that are deffinatly outdated and of no use today?
Why?
I'm curious as to those who do train with them, why do you do it? For the art aspect of the system? For the historic aspect? What?

7sm

 

[Praying-Mantis]

Hi,

We do some forms with traditional weapons, but we don't really train in them.

For example double saber, three-part-stick, and ...what's that called... a broadsword with a long stick.

Do you have such forms?

 

[7starmantis]

Yes, we train in all the original traditional weapons.
The Three-Sectional Staff (sum gi kuan), Monk Spade, Horse Leg Cutter, all these are included.

I'm curious as to why people train in these weapons, as they are obviously not something you would use in todays world.

7sm

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by 7starmantis
I'm curious as to why people train in these weapons, as they are obviously not something you would use in todays world.

Heck, how many people will even use their empty hand martial arts training for self-defense in their lives?

It is after all a martial art. Of all the arts I've studied, the one I miss most is iaido. It was, quite simply, beautiful.

But, I graduated and moved away...

 

[jfarnsworth]

I'm not so sure that any of us can carry any of our martial arts weapons. You know the staff is really impractical as well as the sai. I think the only thing that can be carried is maybe a rattan short stick. In the Kenpo system we have a staff form. Unless you study with a direct 1st generation student of Mr. Parker and they still teach "all" of the forms then we would have a club set (which are two rattan sticks), nun-chuck set, staff set, form 7 (a double stick form), form 8 (double dagger form). Forms 7 & 8 are higher ranking black belt forms. The sets are lower black belt sets.
:asian:

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by arnisador
Heck, how many people will even use their empty hand martial arts training for self-defense in their lives?

It is after all a martial art. Of all the arts I've studied, the one I miss most is iaido. It was, quite simply, beautiful.

But, I graduated and moved away...

I believe that there are many reasons people study the martia arts, but the one that underlies all of them is the ability to "fight" or "perform" what you have leraned. In the mantis system we are so focused on fighting and realistic self defense I can sometimes forget about those who study for the art aspect.

I do train in the "outdated" weapons in my system because I myself enjoy the art of the martial arts. I'm just curious as to why others train or dont train in them. Trying to get some good discussion going here.

7sm

 

[someguy]

Why do people fence or do kendo also fits here.
Its just fun.

 

[7starmantis]

So just for the physical excersice of it then. Thats good. It is fun I'll agree to that.

7sm

 

[wingchunner]

staff, spear, sabre, deer-horn, straight sword, others.

Why?

It enhances our empty hand forms and helps cultivate and utilize our energy and takes it to a higher level (degree). It also helps refine the empty hand forms.

Marty

 

[oldnewbie]

I have not trained in weapons yet, but I would think that the training would allow me to improvise with something I might find. For instance, the staff, I would think I could use any stick, or pole, or broom?? Or am I deluding myself.

As for swords, they are just cool and fun.
Can't wait to learn.

 

[Matt Bernius]

Not a definitive answer, but rather an interesting meditation on this occurs in the book: Iron and Silk by Mark Salzman
(http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/039...go.y=0&go=Go!).

Set up: Salzman is in China with a teacher. He's in a field with the sifu practicing a spear form. In the same field there are some girls practing a traditional dance with hankerchiefs:

From page 154

" Somehow this seemed a good time to ask a question that had been nagging me for some time. 'Teacher Hei, I have a question.' 'Mm?' 'Sometimes I get confused - I don't understand why I spend so much time learning wushu. I'm not a fighter - I've never been in a fight in my life - so what am I doing this for?'

Hei thought for a while, never taking his eyes off the dancers. Then he said, 'You don't have to be a fighter to enjoy wushu. If you were really training for combat, you wouldn't practice wushu. You would become a soldier.' He pointed to the spear I was holding. 'Look at this thing. Do you really think it has any practical use in this century? Can you carry it with you in case of attack and still fee like a respectiable man? It is a cultural artifact now, not a weapon. But should we throw away all out spears and all the skill developed for them? I don't think so. It would seem like a waste to me.'

'I guess I see what you mean, but sill, what reason can I give myself for all this effort.' Teacher Hei shrugged his shoulders and then answered, 'I don't know - why dance with hankerchiefs?' "

That passage has always stuck with me.

On the more practical end (and this may be my experience with the Filipino MA talking) learning each weapon is as much about learning the "spirit" and "concept" of each weapon as it is about learning technique. And that first type of learning came be applied to objects that share the same properties as the weapon you've learned.

Additionally weapons can teach you a lot about empty hand techniques. There may not always be a 1:1 match, but I've found that often there's a lot of shared technique between the two.

- Matt

 

[Matt Bernius]

Could an admin delete THIS posting when you get a chance (I can't seem to)

 

[stephen]

I used to think this way, recently I've done a full 180. I now see that using weapons, as many and varied as possible, points out problems in my movement that I never would have seen otherwise. Those small problems that you never noticed become very obvious when you put an eight foot naginata in your hands. Not to mention the already stated benefit of learning to use improvised weapons by applying skills from similar classical weapons.

/s

 

[7starmantis]

Very very good book and even movie actually!!

7sm

 

[Matt Bernius]

Originally posted by 7starmantis
Very very good book and even movie actually!!

7sm

Yup (but the book is better than the movie). I think its a second tier must read for martial artists (along with Angry White Pajamas).

- Matt

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by 7starmantis
Very very good book and even movie actually!!

The movie was OK, but the book was definitely interesting!