Time in Rank, What does this mean to you?
- Thread starter UKS
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One should learn at there own pace, and not based on TIR. I believe that TIR is just a suggestion, and it may not even be good. It may take you a day to get your yellow belt, it might take you 10 years. As for black belt, typically its two years till 2nd degree, 3 years in second degree to get to third degree, etc.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Sorry, no belt ranks in Traditional Chinese Martial Arts so TIR does not mean anything to me at all
Like any other time in grade question... Is it one year, repeated x times... or x years of training? How has the person grown and expanded their knowledge in the time?
Personally I think it is all about skill. If the skill is not there then no advancement!
I do however feel that the longer someone has been training can be incredibly beneficial to their overall progress. They can see the finer points and hone them. However in the end it is just one factor just like natural ability, intelligence, determination, practice habits, etc.
In the end what is most important in my mind is that they have the skill level appropriate for there level and that they are trying to go beyond that!
While no two individuals will be exactly the same there are certain fundamentals in IRT that must be ingrained. Without those skills developed you cannot move forward. Thankfully most people when they really take their training serious get after it and hone those fundamentals because they want to be better! Hopefully in the end they will not worry about rank, status, etc. In the end we want them to worry about honing their skills! That is what is important!!!
So time in can be beneficial if they use it wisely and train hard and with an eye for the finer details. Yet, it should not be why they are promoted. Hope that gives you some insight into what I think about it.
I do however feel that the longer someone has been training can be incredibly beneficial to their overall progress. They can see the finer points and hone them. However in the end it is just one factor just like natural ability, intelligence, determination, practice habits, etc.
In the end what is most important in my mind is that they have the skill level appropriate for there level and that they are trying to go beyond that!
While no two individuals will be exactly the same there are certain fundamentals in IRT that must be ingrained. Without those skills developed you cannot move forward. Thankfully most people when they really take their training serious get after it and hone those fundamentals because they want to be better! Hopefully in the end they will not worry about rank, status, etc. In the end we want them to worry about honing their skills! That is what is important!!! So time in can be beneficial if they use it wisely and train hard and with an eye for the finer details. Yet, it should not be why they are promoted. Hope that gives you some insight into what I think about it.
I'll just quote Xue Sheng:
I'm just interested in training for the sake of training, so I tend to like the absence of ranks in CMA.
I do wonder, though; if I chose to study an art such as Karate, for example, would I be required to test for belts to learn the entire system, or could I just train for the sake of training and progress normally without the need to test?
I'm just interested in training for the sake of training, so I tend to like the absence of ranks in CMA.
I do wonder, though; if I chose to study an art such as Karate, for example, would I be required to test for belts to learn the entire system, or could I just train for the sake of training and progress normally without the need to test?
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Time in rank is more of a guideline for those in their earlier phases of their martial arts training. It's an excellent way to essentially standardize the training, so that you don't try to teach them too much, too soon, or teach them too little too late.
For example, teaching a green belt (5th kyu) kata Empi isn't going to be very productive at all, since they're still learning to refine the fundamental techniques, and it would be similar to trying to get a 16 or 17 year old kid to learn to drive a methanol powered race car. As a result, you'll have someone who is simply going through the moves, using beginner to intermediate level fundamentals, and they're not going to really gain much out of the training, much how the 16 or 17 year old race car driver wannabe isn't going to be able to handle 180 MPH speeds.
I'm not saying that it's impossible; I've seen some green belts who have excellent talent, understanding, and were significantly more advanced than other green belts, and they could certainly handle learning the more advanced kata, but as a rule of thumb, they're going to be much more rare than the norm.
If a student displays the technical proficiency, understanding, and has the maturity for the next rank, then time in rank doesn't have nearly as much significance. Furthermore, as one gets higher up there in dan rankings, it becomes less about what he takes from the system, and more of what he gives to the system.
For example, teaching a green belt (5th kyu) kata Empi isn't going to be very productive at all, since they're still learning to refine the fundamental techniques, and it would be similar to trying to get a 16 or 17 year old kid to learn to drive a methanol powered race car. As a result, you'll have someone who is simply going through the moves, using beginner to intermediate level fundamentals, and they're not going to really gain much out of the training, much how the 16 or 17 year old race car driver wannabe isn't going to be able to handle 180 MPH speeds.
I'm not saying that it's impossible; I've seen some green belts who have excellent talent, understanding, and were significantly more advanced than other green belts, and they could certainly handle learning the more advanced kata, but as a rule of thumb, they're going to be much more rare than the norm.
If a student displays the technical proficiency, understanding, and has the maturity for the next rank, then time in rank doesn't have nearly as much significance. Furthermore, as one gets higher up there in dan rankings, it becomes less about what he takes from the system, and more of what he gives to the system.
Time in rank allows a general guideline for advancement, but it isn't meant to stand alone. Time in rank or grade requirements assume a certain amount of training during that time, credit hours if you will. So if the time in grade from fourth to fifth dan is four years, that is assuming four years of regular training in whatever a particular art requires of its fourth dan practitioners, be it a specific form, a weapon, or some other requirement(s).What does time in rank mean to you?
Do you feel that TIR is enough for the next belt promotion in black belt with out a test or with a test.
Please share your thoughts.
If I achieve fourth dan and then neglect training for the next four years, sure I'd have the time in grade for a fifth dan but none of what that time in grade is supposed to represent/account for. In such a scenario, my time in grade would be meaningless in terms of my being ready to challenge fifth dan. My reasons for neglecting training may be very good. Perhaps I was deployed or my wife had a child, or perhaps my job or family placed additional requirements on me that prevented me from training. Or perhaps I simply decided that Play Station was more fun. Whatever the reason, the other elements that need to go with the time are not present and I am unlikely to be anything resembling ready for fifth dan.
It all depends upon the organization that you are attempting to attain rank in. Every organization is different and approaches rank differently. Therefore, any rank is significant only within the organization that granted the rank. In order to answer the question posed, it is important to first answer a secondary question. That question is "What does the rank signify within the organization?" If you are talking about the International Kendo Federation (just an example), then rank signifies where a person competes as well as specifying what that person is supposed to be giving back to the organization. This organization has time in rank requirements as well as skill requirements. The TIR requirements are meant to assure that a person has the proper level of experience to be able to assume the responsibilities of higher rank such as match referee, testing judge, or dojo instructor. Many competitive organizations work under the these type of guidelines, so they will have TIR requirements because rank is expected to be more than just skills.What does time in rank mean to you?
Do you feel that TIR is enough for the next belt promotion in black belt with out a test or with a test.
Please share your thoughts.
Other organizations have no specific TIR requirements, but depend upon instructor recommendations to make up for that lack. An instructor is expected to be able to know when their student is ready for the increased responsibility of a higher rank, and the student can't achieve the next rank without that recommendation. Still other organizations have a set curriculum, with rank simply a way of gauging progress through the curriculum. Many dojo have no rank at all. These are either invented arts outside the more normal organizations, or are traditional arts that never bothered to jump on the modern belt ranking band wagon.
So, any meaningful discussion of belt rankings or time in grade will need to include the organization in question, because the answer will depend on what that organization is trying to achieve.
Balrog
Master of Arts
If the material being studied at the new rank is more complex and demanding, then TIR is indicated simply to ensure that the student has sufficient time to learn the material well. If it's just there for the purpose of saying someone has xxx years of experience as a whatever degree Black Belt, then it doesn't have much value.
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